What I find strange is IIRC both Huge and Steve actually need something like a 4X4 because of the rural locations of their homes but choose to defend Chelsea Tractors. Perhaps because they've never experienced the havoc they cause in urban side roads - mainly through poor driving.
Perhaps they want a source of immaculate secondhand ones which have never put a boot in mud?
Because no one ever attacks just urban use of 4x4s they always attack *all*
4x4s. Most of the moaners don't even know what they are moaning about. Will they ban Audi quattros, Subaru WRXs, Fiat Pandas and the like? And where do they sit on the subject of the Subaru Forester?Then campaign against poor driving. If you get these people out of 4x4s do you imagine they will all choose to drive Smart cars? Or indeed that their driving will improve?
The problem is that action taken against city dwellers use of 4x4s is broad brush - to increase fixed taxation in the form of VED, to increase fuel prices and possibly in the future to impose taxation on those who enter cities in a 4x4. The intent of the legislation may be to target those who offend you, but the practice will be to hit those in the country.
BTW, I've said before I'm happy to see legislation banning country folk from visiting cities, provided that the same legislation band city folk from leaving cities. I'd love to see the roads here at the weekend free from the flood of drivers of perfectly ordinary saloon cars who can't drive for toffee rushing to get to the west country or to their holiday cottages on the Downs.
Well it's damned useful, my current Ford was bought off a city boy, let him take the £14k in a year depreciation hit.
Huge doesn't, if he lives where he did last year.
I'm not sure what their driving abilities have got to do with the facts.
I've no idea. Many second-hand vehicles of this sort have lots of scratches and dings in them, especially around the bumpers (or "bull bars"), together with assorted colours of paint rubbed off other cars.
Top speed 130mph. 0-60 10.4sec. 0-100 31.6sec. 50-70 6.0sec. MPG 19 overall 43 test route
Top speed 109mph. 0-60 12.2sec. 0-100 42.8sec. 50-70 13sec. MPG 17 overall. 24 test route.
Forgetting acceleration and top speed which are unimportant to many, the key figure is the 50/70 mph time for overtaking. The Disco takes more than twice as long as the Espace due to its excessive weight. (and all tests have said it's excessive)
The official fuel consumption figures are known by all who actually drive to be a bit of a joke. Autocar - where these figures come from - take all their test cars over a standard route which is designed to be more representative of most urban/suburban driving.
Their overall result includes performance testing on a track so is unlikely to be representative of daily use.
On the touring route, the Espace managed 43 mpg, the Disco 24.
Which proves my argument that if you take a car type vehicle with the same performance as a 4X4 you'll save both the planet and mucho money on fuel. Just comparing similar sized engines in the two makes no sense to anyone with half a brain cell, since the on road performance is chalk and cheese. But ruins your argument further since the smaller engined car with the same performance as the 4X4 will be even more economical and produce less CO2.
Really? I was simply doing the comparison since they are available with identical engines - rather than your obvious ploy of using different makes, one of which may have a state of the art engine design, and one possibly due for replacement shortly. And the Ford V-6 in the Disco *is* a recent design.
I'm afraid you're not making much of a fist of it.
I'm not telling anybody to walk. Might help and if tried to understand what's written before jumping to conclusions.
Although walking or cycling to school would seem a good idea for many kids, given the current figures on obesity in youngsters.
You forgot to mention the blood & scraps of flesh ...
I can certainly confirm that a defender - same basic chassis and transmission as a disco, but much less fancy, returns between 20 and
25mpg overall on normal driving (cruise at 45-50 on open roads you get 25mpg, in town or at 85mph, its nearer 20mpg.The same is totally *not* true of other more 'townified' 4x4's..here the fuel consumption is very close to that of a standard road car. However they don't have the ground clearance to wade through floods and deep snow, and the sheer grunt of the landrover..
I am totally against raising car tax on 4x4's though. By all means raise the fuel tax, and let people decide what they want to drive...but this road tax does not encourage low fuel consumption. It encourages non
4x4's. That is not the same thing at all. With a fixed motoring budget one is tempted to go for a small car and spend less on tax, and MORE on fuel, and do MORE miles.We don't quite HAVE to have a defender, but its such a capable tackle anything sort of car, and it does get to go off road quite a bit, for all sorts of reasons..that I prefer to keep it and simply use it infrequently when I need to. Currently tax, insurance and MOT together exceed the cost of the fuel that it uses...
No, it simply proves desperation. The figures you quoted were not significantly different to the official ones, amnd they don't invalidate the point that as near to like for like as one can get - seven seats some room for luggage, a 4x4 is a close match for an MPV.
[snip]
Was I talking to you?
However what do *you* expect to happen if you ban all of the 4x4s that are so obviously ruining your existence?
MyStuff and eit3mei are the two to start with. These two alone transform the toppy.
The latest Disco is nothing like the Defender. It has independant suspension all round. And weighs in at two tons. ;-)
No it's not if you compare with a car of the same performance. The only one which comes close is the Lexus hybrid. But then it's a road only 4X4 - you can't even tow with it or cross a muddy field.
I'd call double the MPG from the Espace over the Disco in real wold use quite significant for most. As well as half the time to overtake.
Did you actually read the figures? Or my conclusions?
Thanks - I'll have to investigate.
If it had been double, then perhaps you would be right:
Overall MPG
Espace: 19 Discovery: 17
Not much difference between the two there, is there?
I did, however I don't think you bothered to read the figures.
FFS, read the post properly. The Autocar overall figure includes performance testing on a test track and isn't representative of normal motoring. Their touring route is - that's why they derived it.
Seems you've also ignored the bit about finding an MPV with similar performance to the Disco and compare that - rather than one which leaves it for dead. But then the results would be even less in your favour.
Oh I did *and* understood them. Do you need them explained yet again?
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