Musty smell in rooms.

[sweetheart]

I was just wondering if posters might help me isolate the cause of a musty old house smell I have. I know its supposed to come from damp and mould.

I did have a general problem with this . In the kitchen I have changed the window and door ( to new double glazed plastic from wooden frames and double glazed) .This seems to have cured the kitchen- including the condensation and the mould I did have in there is going away ( and I haven't decorated there yet)

However, the smell persists in the house and I have cleaned, chucked out old furniture, painted and dried out stuff but still the smell continues.

Its not in my hall. Its not in the dining room and sitting rooms. I have established this ( again they have all been newly double glazed as it happens).

The smell is mainly in the bedrooms at the front of the house ( bungalow). I cant cope in my own bedroom ( which is worse) OH doesn't seem bothered by it but I have a weak chest and it is making me a bit ill.

There is no mould I can see. I have cleaned everything. I have changed everything. I think the room is damp ( air), it feels it to me and I know the window gets condensation ( it is an old wooden frame double glazed unit) . If we have dry weather it does seem to ease a bit - it never goes way unless I put the heating on all the time.

I don't know what more to do. Question really - is this coming from the window frame or window? Or am I looking for something else?

The other bedroom has similar ( but less pronounced) problems. Again no mould I can see. All freshly done out by me over the last few months. Everything old got rid of.

Can anyone suggest a way forward. Again I know the room suffers from condensation. Cant seem to cure it ( even with a dehumidifier) Nice dry days eases the problem.

The bungalow is a brick and block built 1958 bungalow in Cornwall ( wet and windy at the moment). The rooms are east and North east facing.

Thanks for any advice on this.

( by the way I sorted the wall on the corner in the kitchen where it got chipped off. - thanks for the instructions)

[Brian Gaff]

Under the floor perhaps, leaking pipe or roof some place?

Brian

[NT]

There are many causes of damp. Check the roof tiles are all in place, rainwatergoods arenot damaged or blocked, any vents arent blocked. Look for human made sources of damp, mainly steamy cooking, showers without ventilation, indoor clothes drying. Check the loft for wetness anywhere. Inspect all plumbing. If radiators need bleeding repeatedly there's a leak in the CH somewhere.

I presume you mean a real dehumidifier, not a box of lime.

NT

[Peter Parry]

It hasn't cured the condensation problem - just moved it somewhere else.

The problem is one, by the sound of it, of poor ventilation. By double glazing some windows they become warmer on the inside and water vapour no longer condenses on them. However, the vapour is still in the air and will simply condense on other cold surfaces in other rooms.

The only cure is to reduce the level of water vapour by reducing moisture getting into the air in the first place and improving ventilation.

It will for as long as you have moisture ladened air inside the house.

There is your clue. The double glazing raises the temperature above the point at which condensation occurs so those rooms stay dry and the moisture condenses out in the cooler non-double glazed ones. The easterly facing rooms will also have the coolest walls encouraging more condensation.

It is caused by condensation. It won't go away until you reduce the amount of moisture being generated within the house by using cooker hoods venting to outside or a kitchen extractor fan when cooking/washing. Use bathroom extraction fans with humidity controls or running for 30 minutes after a shower or bath. Don't dry clothes inside the house, don't use a condenser tumble dryer but one venting to outside.

[Mr Pounder]

When I bought this place nearly four years ago it stank to high heaven. The smell went away when the carpets were ripped up.

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[sweetheart]

I know the house is air tight - although I did get laughed at when I suggested that part of my problem might be the bubble wrap effect - too much insulation.

I cant see how I can reduce condesation further. I dont cook except for an hour and a hallf on Sundays. I am not in during the week so the kitchen isnt used. We dont have baths - we use the shower and that only runs for 5 mins or less.

The bathroom ( which is the least steamy in the house has windows open all the time)

The cooker is electric ( no hood).

I wash once a week and use the tumble dryer ( condenser dryer and does not cause humidity in the kitchen ) once a week.

If it is possible I dry outside, never indoors.

But I still get tons of condensation on the windows.

I have checked the roof - no leaks. I have checked the gutters and drains , no leaks. I checked the floorboards - dry as a bone.

We do not have radiators ( all electric because there is no gas to the village) . The problem is worse when I turn off the heating.

If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became an eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no smell)

I still cannot find it unless it is just too airtight to suffocation?

I wondered whether the constant wetting by condensation on the windows and drying out of the wooden window frames was causing the smell?

[sweetheart]

I presume you mean a real dehumidifier, not a box of lime.

Yes and it does seem to permanently on to have any effect.

NT

[sweetheart]

Carpets in the one room are about 15 years old. In the other ( the worst room) I have taken up the carpet and its bare floorboards now.

How about the walls? Could it be the wallpaper? I havent changed that ( its woodchip). I did re paint it though about six years ago

[Mr Pounder]

I can't see it being the wallpaper.

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[charles]

Stop breathing. You exhale a fair bit of moisture.

[Peter Parry]

Too much insulation and not enough ventilation is a common cause of condensation, by having some windows single glazed you make the problem worse by creating cold plates for the moist air to condense upon. It will be doing the same on the carpet (cold floor) but you won't notice it except by smell.

Do you have a bathroom/shower room extractor fan?

Depending on the time of the year and prevailing wind that isn't necessarily helpful. You want to draw moist air out, not push it into the rest of the house.

Most condensing tumble dryers leak about 1 Litre of water per load in the form of water vapour into the room they are in.

It will be if the cause is poor ventilation.

It is the condensation occurring on cold surfaces but not enough to be a visible water film. The windows are your best indicator that you have woefully inadequate ventilation.

[stuart noble]

There's your answer then. You need to maintain a temperature suitable for human habitation i.e. 16 or 17 degsC. With proper insulation this shouldn't be too expensive

[Phil L]

So you've got floorboards in a bungalow? That means you've got suspended floors, which means the joists could be rotting if there's not enough ventilation. Check the outside airbricks underneath or very near the DPC and check them all the way around the property - they all need to be working properly. Check they go through OK by prodding a thin rod through about 2ft - a bamboo cane will do and prod about 6 or 7 different holes in each one and make sure they aren't blocked.

Also, check the floors in each room for 'bounce', especially near the exterior wall side

[Mr Pounder]

Sweetheart. When did this problem start?

[sweetheart]

I have thought about that .But what is the point of a house that is only OK if no one alive lives in it?

[sweetheart]

I accept the ventilation may be inadiquate. The bathroom is the least of my worries really.However, I can see the point about the windows. Whilst they are not single glazed the ones in the bedrooms are old and poorly(?) doubleglazed . Hence I wondered if they needed changing.

As I said, this was a whole house problem but removing the signle glazed units in the dining room and sitting room solved that problem. Changing the wooden double glazed window and door in the kitchen seems to have solved that area. So would new windows in the bedrooms solve that one?

I have put the heating back on today to see if I can dry things out a bit. I have had enough this week ( windy , wet and cold and a high must factor)

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[sweetheart]

Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees and our house is rarely above that when I have the heating off . Its around 18 when the heating is on ( or 20 in winter when my chest plays up) .

I kid not when I say I wear a coat around the house.

But what happened to all this turn the heating down and wear an extra layer? It is clearly no good for the house is it? This is where my OH has become obsessed.

[sweetheart]

I checked them - hence the reason one of the rooms has no carpet. I took it up to check it. Its all dry and hunkey.

[sweetheart]

Well, there has always been a bit of a problem in winter since we moved in the house - 20 years ago.

There has always been condenstation with the windows. The wondwos and patio doors in the sitting room were all wooden The bedrooms still are. My predecessor had the house insulated and draught proofed ( its all sealed everywhere) .

When I used to keep the heating on it was always fine. Then OH got eco and economy conscious about four years ago ( with the recession) and started forcing us to do the stuff the TV suggested - and then it all escallated and its got worse and worse and worse. Now its unliveable in the bedroom ( for me). The problem has really got far worse in the last month in there. It now stinks. So I cleaned and moved everything and am still trying to find it.

I got fed up, had a blazing row with him and started renewing all the wet sopping condensation wringing windows this last winter when they collapsed and I refused to take a Mr botch job and sent for the double glazing firm . I have A rated planitherm windows in the sitting room and the kitchen and a double glazed insulated door in the kitchen now. .

I didnt get as far as the bedrooms. They are still wooden and have thin double glazed units in them. They do get sopping wet when it is cold . It gets better if the weather improves. It gets worse when it rains and is cold like now.

[NT]

First replacing windows or wallpaper has absolutely nothing to do with solving a damp problem.

Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in use.

3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably. Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to work.

I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high, when really the lowest possible setting and a lid cooks just as fast.

NT