I work in lots of schools and see a fair few installations that have been done like this. I'm not sure it is the best way of doing it but plenty of people have done it (generally where things have been moved unofficially by the school staff) and ive not seen anything go wrong with it yet!. I've seen everything in the same trunking too and it works fine (it 'works' but may not be sensible!).
My company do board and projector installations. We get a sparky in to run a proper fused/switched supply up to the roof next to the projector. It wouldnt cost you much to get this done.
I'm assuming that you also do not have asbestos in the ceilings like most of the schools round here too!
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:39:12 -0000, "Clive George" mused:
Depends, on the site, the amount of appliances, the type of appliances, the time of day, the tester being used and anything else you can think of.
If you mean the actual process of the test then if you were sat at a desk, with a fully automatic PAT tester, with a nice shiney monitor in front of you to test then if the tester was already programmed the actual test itself is easy, plug it in, set the type of apliance, press test.
Obviously this answer is 1 of thousands, it depends entirely on many factors, but generally, it's not difficult. Best to get at least some training on doing the job though as just buying a tester and then going out and hoping you're doing it right is irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst.
The test results are only of any use if the operator knows exactly what they are doing.
By competent, do you mean competent as in 'are trained to operate the test equipment and have certificates to show this' or competent as in 'they look like they know what they're doing to me'?
I never said they had to be specifically trained, but to just buy a PAT tester and have anyone test appliances is not what is meant by competent.
Using a PAT testing machine is a relatively minor part of the actual test. Probably much more important is examination of plugs, leads, fuses and so on.
With most classII equipment, there is not much the machine can do. The test is mainly physical inspection. When I was doing PAT testing I don't think I ever failed any class 2 gear other than on inspection.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:38:47 -0000, "Clive George" mused:
I had a look for online courses a while ago but couldn't find any. You can get DVD's and books on the subject though, the DVD's are often on eBay for a reasonable sum and Amazon do the books.
Any person with a modicum of resposibility and intelligence should be able to do it with not much more than a couple of hours training. The hardest part I found was not the testing, but finding the kit due for testing the next time round. The biggest variable is deciding how often to test. Stuff sitting on a lab shelf in its original box for years on end is a different boiler of piscenes to stuff on a builder's waggon.
Indeed. Is there a machine that can test for wrong fuses, frayed wiring, loose terminal screws, broken cable clamps and odd bits of wire floating round in the plug top?
Soul destroying boring. You need a special type of person to ensure its done correctly without short cuts being taken. Random checks does help to keep them on their toes.
PAT *testing* is quite easy. Follow the instructions that come with the machine, do the tests in the prescribed order, and keep your fingers away from the big red probe marked with a 'flash' symbol.
*Inspection* on the other hand requires rather more knowledge as well as common sense. For example, if you have a heater, do you know the permitted spacing of the guard grilles, the required temperature rating of the flexible, and the requirement for a visual indication of energised status. For a school, maximum surface/touch temperature is likely to be very important.
Understanding the results of the test is also important, and a cheap pass/fail tester will not give the required information. Recording actual values and comparing with previous can show, for example, a gradual reduction in insulation value enabling an appliance to be taken out of service before the insulation finally breaks down.
However in many cases (perhaps not schools) if you cycle through most of your equipment within about 3 years, and replace with new, there is a case for not requiring *testing*, as inspection alone would be sufficient.
I suspect the CDROM guides on Ebay are not worth much - the IEE Code of Practice would be the minimum - and IMHO neither are the one-day courses with a 'certificate' at the end - the City & Guilds qualification is the one to have.
And don't whatever you do test any computer or I.T. equipment. You can't PAT test anything with a switched mode power supply.
If you don't know this, some (unsrupulous) electricians will rip you off, as they charge a per item cost, so will attempt to test anything with a plug on it, plus they could damage the equipment.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:55:34 +0000 (GMT), Paul Vigay mused:
You can. A PAT test is a series of tests, both physical and visual. A PAT test isn't just 'megger the f*ck out of everything'.
I charge per item and have tested hundreds of SMPS's. Maybe you should read up on how to test appliances, or buy a better tester, or both.
Laughable really, qualified as what, moron?
I took a contract of a guy like you. He did the PAT testing in 6 offices. In each office he tested a kettle, microwave and vacuum cleaner. That was about it, so probably 20 appliances tops in 6 branches. I managed to test 200 and odd apliances, and have done every year at the same offices for the last 3 years and haven't yet lost a SMPS due to me incorrectly testing it.
Competent by what measure? I get that you think he's competent, but say someone was killed by a faulty appliance tested by this person, would your opinion on his level of competence carry any weight in a court of law?
I didn't say paying someone was the best way to do it, just that if the person being paid is competent (competent as in qualified\experienced, not qualified as in 'I reckon he knows what he's doing even though I have received no formal training) then that would be the preferred route if the other option is to use someone untrained.
And his competence is gauged by what, your opinion as an untrained (by any recognised standard relating to PAT testing) employee of the same company as him?
In article , Lurch of snipped-for-privacy@sjwelectrical.co.uk, felt we'd be interested in the following...
I couldn't be considered as a professional witness, so I doubt my opinion would count for anything in a Court of Law.
As for measuring competence, see my answer below, which reflects an answer I gave some while ago about personal interpretation.
No, my knowledge of the fact the he used to work as an electrician, had his own electrical installation business with electricians working for him, is the site Health & Safety officer having attended various courses concerning such, is the site manager with pretty high standards for work carried out and so on.
To my 'untrained' eye, that makes him competent enough to do the job, and train others whom he considers competent enough to also do the job.
So really then, you're decision on his competence shouldn't count for anything here either.
Righto.
Right, so he's probably as competent as many PAT testers out there then.
This slightly long, off topic, splinter thread just goes to show that without knowing all the facts then some generalisations come out that, whilst being correct, may bear not a great deal of relevance to the topic in hand.
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