Motorcycle batteries - sealed

[Graeme Eldred]

Having enjoyed the thread about topping up batteries, I thought I'd start one of my own :-)

We recently bought a second hand battery driven car for our son, and find that there are two 6v batteries, wired in series, to give 12v. I'm fairly sure they are motorcycle batteries. They are described as sealed, so presumably don't require any further attention.

Two questions.

We have to turn the car on to one side, i.e. through ninety degrees, to get it in and out of the house (yes, every morning, and every evening!), and always remove the batteries first. Is that necessary? Being sealed, can they safely be turned on their sides?

Should we trickle charge it every night, irrespective of the use it has had that day? I'm thinking more in terms of overall battery life, than the amount of power available the following day.

Thanks!

[:::Jerry::::]

evening!),

Without knowing the exact make and battery code this is an impossible question to answer, some batteries are sealed and un vented, some are sealed but have a vent via a plastic tube, some are nominally sealed (the lid or stoppers are just designed not to be removed but are still present and have vent holes), either of the latter two / could / leak acid when turned onto their side.

If they are lead acid then trickle charging then won't do any harm, I'm more worried about the fact that are being (sort of) deep cycled - normally you should use leisure or traction batteries for such applications.

[Andrew Gabriel]

For this application, they should be deep discharge batteries, which is not what you'd expect to find in a car or motorcycle (whose batteries are damaged by deep discharges).

There's no problem tipping them to any angle for that. I don't know if there's any issue with long term use at strange angles, but there's no requirement to keep them upright all the time that I know of.

I've got a number of things with sealed lead acid batteries in them, and they all basically say the same. The batteries lose some percentage of their charge when not being used, and they are killed by being left flat for a long time, so it's a good idea to charge them once a month during periods of non-use, and ensure they are fully charged at the beginning of any such period. Some of the instructions indicate to do a full charge each month, others indicate just a short top-up charge is fine.

Having said that, I have a 12V 7AH SLA battery which was removed from an alarm some 10 years ago during routine replacement, and I do everything wrong with it, and it still operates at full capacity when I need to use it.

[mike ring]

Graeme Eldred wrote in news: [e-mail]:

What others have said about the batteries is right, but IME you should use a conditioner, like optimate or accumate(there are others).

You leave these on for ever, and your batteries will be kept fine, and live for ever. (well, mine have)

They are not chargers as such, and if your batteries discharge deeply you will need to recharge at .1xcapacity amps, BUT, if they are Gel at .05xcapacity.

Constant fast charging isn't good.

may help you (DIY battery FAQs)

mike

[Graeme Eldred]

In message , Andrew Gabriel writes

OK. I'm assuming they could be m/c batteries, but only because that is what they look like :-)

Yuasa NP10-6 described as valve regulated, sealed lead-acid type, rechargeable battery, 6v, 10Ah, Designed for standby use.

I have found it on the web :

Described as 'Sealed lead acid Yuasa battery, often used in UPS systems and child's electric vehicles. '

Thanks - they would only be on their sides for 30 seconds or so, whilst the vehicle is manoeuvred through a door way.

Wonderful. Son seems able to almost flatten the batteries, on a sunny day, so I have been trickle charging almost every night. Will keep in mind that a top up will be good news during winter, when the vehicle is less likely to be used.

These are replacement batteries. We bought the vehicle second hand, and the seller said the original pair of batteries lasted at least seven years, and were usually ignored for months at a time, during winter.

[Christian McArdle]

They aren't too bad on self discharge, so can go a considerable period without charging, provided they are put away fully charged. NiCds and NiMH are much worse for this.

Christian.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It depends. Unfortunately, some makers describe batteries as being sealed for life when they aren't actually truly sealed types - ie with a gel for an electrolyte rather than a liquid, where the latter can and will leak if overturned.

Any lead acid regardless of type will be more than happy to be topped up to full charge regardless of use. But with the correct charger.

With genuinely sealed types this involves using a constant voltage charger where the maximum voltage doesn't exceed 13.8 volts.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They are a *very* expensive way of keeping a battery in peak condition. A decent normal charger at the same price should do the same job - but fast charge a battery as well.

The expensive items in a charger are things like the transformer - not the electronics. These low output 'conditioners' should cost no more than any other wall wart - ie under 10 quid.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Batteries of the type you've described will be perfectly happy being left

- if fully charged - for months without any use.

[usenet]

Some of the Gunsons chargers have an output which can be switched to 'float' so that they can be left permanently connected to a battery.

The ones I have will charge at up to 8 amps as well as float, they cost about £30 or a bit less I think so very little different from the ones which don't fast charge as well.

I use the two Gunsons I have on my tractor batteries so they survive the winter when the tractors are rarely used.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I was thinking of those 35 quid wall wart battery conditioners which output a maximum of less than an amp. A 30 quid 8 amp charger which also does float seems to me ok value. It should allow a reasonable discharged battery to start a car with an overnight charge.

[Colin]

Do you think that it would be possible to use one charger to keep two batteries charged (e.g. motorcycle and lawnmower) by connecting the batteries together (in series/parallel)?

Colin

[usenet]

It should be OK if both batteries are in reasonably good condition. I think the Gunson's manual actually mentions this somewhere. Go and have a look around their web site, or, er maybe not, the web site seems to have changed somewhat and I can't see so much information there as there used to be.