I need a couple of mortise locks to replace some existing ones (I am a new owner of a house). Looking in the Screwfix catalogue (page 126) the two options are 2 1/2" and 3", what does this measurement refer to I presume the height of the 'innards, but how do I know how big the visible plate is. I do not mind chiselling out for a bigger one but would like one to at least fill the recess left by the other ones. If it helps the original ones are Chubb 5 Lever.
TIA
John
Try and replace like for like John. Your insurance company will also like to see at least a five lever mortice lock with a known brand name on it, eg, Chubb, Yale, Cesa etc. That way they make sure that you are taking an interest in your own security needs. I would also recommend an intruder alarm and smoke detectors if not already installed.
The 2 1/2" and 3" measurements are the depth of the case (not the height). These are fairly standard,
"Backset" is the distance from the edge of the door to the axis of the doorknob. This is more important, if you're doing a refit. You can adjust most of the heights by chiselling or filling, but you can't do much about this. It's less standard than you'd like, especially for deadbolts with no knob.
A catalogue with dimensions:
Your insurance company won't give a damn what type of lock it is, who made it, or how effective it is. All they ever care about is the magic sigil "BS 3621" marked on it somewhere.
You _can_ find non-mortice automatic rimlocks to BS3621 (handy for front doors), so don't be fobbed off by insurance companies insisting that all BS3621 locks are mortices.
Your insurance company couldn't give a stuff about the name as long as the lock meets BS3621.
Not usually a particularly good investment.
And a very good one.
Anyway John to answer your first question, The measurement refers to the depth of the lock.
i.e. the distance from the front edge of the door to the center of the square bit that the handle fits too.
i should guess that yours is the standard 2 1/2" and you should beable to replace like 4 like, no chieseling required.
By what looks good quality ( bit that fits in door jam important ) but as others have said ensure you get the BS mark!
Jinx
Couple of things I missed:
The reason why there are two sizes is (mainly) to cope with glass doors with narrow frames. This is why it's the case _depth_ that's significant, not something sensible like the backset.
Get the Yale one, not the Chubb. I've had both, hated the Chubb.
The Chubb uses weird keys. They're near impossible to have cut (usually just one place in a big city) and even then the failure rate on copies is high - I used to take as many faulty ones back as I could actually use.
Chubb is insecure. The bolt is flat ended and held on a "trigger" bolt. When you close the door, the trigger releases the main bolt. Now this is fine, and how it stops the deadlock bolt being retracted by wrong-uns. However if you slam the door, or close it very slowly, the bolt may fire when it's not correctly aligned with the frame. The bolt _wedges_ the door closed, but pushing the door allows it to be pushed open !
The plastic interior handle falls off. It's made of unglueium.
I would also recommend mortice bolts to be fitted at the top and bottom the back door. Bear in mind though that whatever precautions you take, a determined thief can be inside your house in less than one minute if he so chooses. However, with BS3621 locks, you will be able to claim on your house insurance (and the best of luck if you ever need to). Don't forget that insurance companies also usually require window locks on all downstairs windows and all windows accessible without the use of a ladder.
Terry D. (a born pessimist)
In article <bj8g2b$l98$ snipped-for-privacy@titan.btinternet.com>, Jinx snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com writes
Yes
No, it's the case depth, the measurement from the front of the lock to the back of the case. The dimension you describe is the backset.
Current chubbs are mm sized, key posn 40mm back from the door edge is likely to be a 67mm (2 1/2") lock, 57mm backset suggests 80mm (3" lock). I say likely 'cos they do a 3" lock with a 40mm backset too.
You make the backset/case size mistake once, travel 100mls to middle of nowhere to fit the lock for aged relative, then you don't forget ;-)
Incidentally, surely the insurer should notify you of these requirements - so far I've not read anything like this in my documentation etc. Certainly never read anything about window locks being required on any windows.
DIn article <bj9pb6$b3e$ snipped-for-privacy@news.ukfsn.org>, David Hearn <dave@NoSpam SwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> writes
Not a city dweller then :-). I wouldn't be able to get cover without BS3621 locks & window locks. My parents' rural property has no such requirement. I think it will be writ large in the policy or schedule if required.
Isn't that a good feature? The idea of having a lock where the corner shop can copy the key strikes me as rather daft...
I've got a Chubb nightlatch on the front door with glass panels which is one of the few made which conforms to the appropriate BS, and it's been great - it deadlocks from the inside. It replaces a similar principle Yale which broke after a few years. Not cheap, though.
I don't mind the weirdness. But when I traipsed all the way across town to the official Chubb place, and then their freshly cut key didn't work either, then it got a bit annoying.
If you have a competent Ford garage, they can cut them too. If they realise they can, and they keep the blanks in stock - but the cutting machine is the same as needed for Fords of a few years ago.
This one ?
AFAIK, it is technically impossible to insure any house with a UPVC front door against burglary. You need BS3621 for every policy I've seen lately, and AFAIK it's not possible to obtain such a lock for such a door (the typical espagnolete lock and a Euro-cylinder)
Comments, anyone ?
Not having locks meeting BS3621 and not having window locks only added £10 to my policy, but avoided exclusion clauses requiring me to lock every window lock if I nip next door. However, the main reason was I had to take out the policy before I moved in to the house, so I couldn't check if all the requirements were met at the time. They were, but as with the alarm, I'm not taking the discount because I don't want the acompanying exclusions to the insurance cover.
With the policies I've had, it was something which gets you a discount, which as explained in another post, you probably don't want to take. What you do have to watch is that when you first buy the insurance, whoever is selling it doesn't just tick all the boxes on the form to give you the lowest price quote, which isn't going to cover your real situation. I've seen that happen several times. The best example was a crash repair garage filling out the insurance form for a courtesy car -- the woman just automatically ticked that you hadn't had an accident in last 5 years. I tore it up and filled in a new one myself, much to her protest as she'd been told to always tick that box. Stupid thing was the price of this cover didn't seem to vary according to what you filled in anyway.
The largest discount on house insurance was not for window locks, BS door locks, alarms, etc, but was for being part of a neighbourhood watch scheme. That should be a good indication of which of these the insurance companies find most effective as a deterrant.
requirements -
What do your insurers require re. using the locks. Only when you go out, or everytime the window is not actually open?
In article , Andrew Gabriel writes
Who are you with Andrew?
TIA
Another good reason for living 'out in the sticks', there are certainly no such requirements on our house insurance policy. As it is I regularly leave the front door key in the lock by mistake overnight after I've put it in there to allow easy access in and out during the day and no one has ever taken advantage yet.
Seems to be something called Rainbow Policy, by Legal and General. It was arranged by my mortgage broker (bad idea), but I think that isn't who it was originally with.
I checked with the nationwide at the time I bought my house because I was worried about this. My door has a metal skin that locking arrangement but they did not have a problem with it and said the same for such "modern" door/lock and it isn't in the policy documents (which look pretty standard to me) as a requirement.
Obviously, this might not apply in every case so please check yourself - phone call/letter to your insurer only takes a minute.
Andrew
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