See previous posts.
I am now at the stage of removing the radiators to flush them, fit new lockshields and fit TRVs.
The old valves are really antiquated and have obviously been there a long time. I'm having great problems getting the old olives off. They will rotate round the pipe, but I can't get them to move at all vertically. So far I have resorted to a hacksaw to get them off, with the obvious risk of cutting into the pipe itself. Has anyone got any better suggestions?
Keith
A proper olive remover?
never use it again once I've got all these off - mind you I've got another
22 to go!
================================== If the olive is so difficult to remove it's quite probable that the pipe itself is distorted - effectively grooved to the shape of the olive. If this is the case then you might have difficulty in getting new olives to seat correctly.
If it's possible it would be worth cutting off the end of the old pipe(s) and soldering on a new short lengths to take new olives / fittings.
Cic.
Yes, that's exactly was has happened - I had wondered if I will have problems getting new olives to seat correctly. However, the olives for the new valves seem to sit differently to those in the old ones, so I may be OK. Problem with soldering on short new lengths is that my plumbing skills don't really run to doing that! I'd have to get someone in.
Keith
================================== I would be very surprised if you could get new olives to seat correctly in these circumstances. Is it possible to cut out a longer length of pipe and join with compression joints? They can look a bit awkward if they're too close to other compression joints but a working 'bodge' is better than a leaking work of art.
Cic.
Do you need to get them off at all? Could you not use the existing back nut and olive on the new valve?
cheaper elsewhere.
Screwfix sell dedicted olive removers.
No, because the this system was installed many moons ago the old valves are in no way comparable, let alone compatible, with modern standard fittings.
I'm beginning to think I may have to hone my rudimentary soldering skills and bite the bullet about cutting off and replacing the deformed tops of the pipes. I would be using presoldered straight couplings and need please some general tips to make the process easier, plus:
Any suggestions for a decent heat mat to protect the surroundings?
My blowlamp has too big a flame, and doesn't work well if it has to be tilted - any suggestions for a decent blowlamp to make it all easier?
Decent flux?
Any other tips?
Keith
Buy an olive puller. When you insert the new olives use Loctite jointing compound on the olive, available from Screwfix and others. That will make a good seal. Buy an olive puller may be a one off purchase, but cheaper in the long run, and you have 22 of them to pull.
Buy a bag of them from BES or equivalent and do some practicing. You might also like to have a go with the end feed type because they produce a much neater result if you are having to join pieces on.
Heating merchants have these or again BES
It depends on what you want to spend. Many years ago, when I put in my first complete CH system, I invested in a Sievert torch. In the past, they were quite inexpensive but have certainly increased with inflation
product comes with a variety of different burners and accessories and runs from a standard propane cylinder. For a complete installation, the running cost is very low vs. buying the small cylinders for hand torches. Different burner sizes can be used for different fitting sizes and the torch can go into quite small spaces without fear of funny effects with tilting.
It's disadvantage is that it does need to be manually lit.
I also have a smaller hand held torch - Rothenberger Superfire
is a nice product because it has the control and igniter in one place. Press the button, click and it lights. Release and it goes out. Good as a safety feature. This one will tolerate not being vertical.
Prices vary on all of these so shop around.
Normally an acid free flux or an acid one of you prefer. Again, heating merchant or BES.
Fit a strainer to the return to the boiler.
Flushing thoroughly afterwards with a flushing agent to neutralise the flux, followed by a correct dose of Fernox or Sentinel inhibitor. Don't be tempted to economise. Some of the cheap inhibitors are not as effective and you are protecting an investment of several £k.
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:02:32 GMT, "Keith Dunbar" mused:
If it's that old that the threads don't match on the nuts then the chances are it will be a bastard of a job to solder new tails on to the existing pipes. Have you tried sticking the new valves on the old olives and nuts?
Quite possible, I just used the ScrewFix URL as an illustration.
Like I say, the old nuts are incompatible - having an external thread rather than an internal one.
Why will it be difficult to solder new tails on the existing pipes. Don't I just saw off the top distorted bit of the pipe, clean all the paint off back to bare metal, and solder on a straight coupling with a new tail? Apart from my lack of skill and experience at doing this I'm not sure why it should be difficult.
Keith
BES? End feed type?
Sounds ideal. Thanks for the info.
Like I say, the old nuts are incompatible - having an external thread rather than an internal one.
Why will it be difficult to solder new tails on the existing pipes. Don't I just saw off the top distorted bit of the pipe, clean all the paint off back to bare metal, and solder on a straight coupling with a new tail? Apart from my lack of skill and experience at doing this I'm not sure why it should be difficult.
Keith
bes.ltd.uk
online supplier of all things plumbing at quite good prices. They have bags of assorted copper fittings.
Means a capillaey action fitting without solder ring. You clean, flux, heat and apply solder at the ends of the fittings. The profile is almost straight.
There's a similar one from Bernz-o-matic.
================================== This page will give you a general guide to soldering but I think some of the recommendations would be queried by professionals and competent people:
As far as flux and solder is concerned it's best to buy both together as they're almost certain to be compatible with each other. Since you're going to use pre-soldered fittings ('Yorkshire') buy flux to suit them. However, you would probably be better off using 'end feed' fittings which are actually easier to use, look much neater and are cheap enough to use to practise on (and discard) before doing the real job. Apply heat moving the flame over as much of the joint as possible and touch the end of the solder to the joint to see when it is ready to flow. When it flows apply just enough to get a little blob of overflow and then remove heat and solder. Allow to cool without moving the joint. If you can be bothered do a few test pieces with offcuts of pipe and when cool de-solder them to see how well the solder flowed.
Before starting the real job make sure that the pipes you're going to work on are well drained as water can cause problems with soldering.
Heat mats can be a bit of a problem as they're often of poor quality or difficult to position properly. Many people make their own from a bit of thin steel plate which can be bent to any suitable shape. If you've got an old computer case or any other similar thin metal box available cut a piece about 8" x 8" square and bend it to shape when you use it. Even a beer can with the ends cut off and slit down one side will do quite well.
The standard budget blow lamp from any DIY store (B & Q etc.) will do as long as you don't wave it about too vigorously and don't turn it upside down. Let the flame stabilise before applying heat to the joint.
Cic.
Both you and Andy Hall have advocated end feed fittings, but I don't understand why. You both say they look better than pre-soldered, but to me they look the same. I had assumed pre-soldered would be easier because the inlet pipe is vertical, the fitting would just sit on it, and the new piece of pipe would sit on that - add flux, heat it up until solder melts and bingo. To get solder to go uphill from the bottom pipe to the fitting would seem quite difficult to me. What am I missing?
Keith
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