More BS from Corgi

[fred]

Apologies in advance, I'm having a slow night.

Rouge Traders (pun intended) is on Beeb 1 in the background and they are getting high and mighty over some people doing paid gas work when they're not Corgi registered. Trouble is they're claiming that the bad boys have broken the law the minute they've taken the cover off, which I view as complete bollocks, no work on gas carrying parts so no offence (they go on to break the law later by dicking with the gas valve).

Any in agreement or with conflicting views.

There's 10mins left if anyone's interested but really, it's not worth it.

[Doctor Drivel]

Yep, it is not illegal to take off the case of the boiler. It is not illegal to work on none gas parts in gas boiler. It is illegal to seal someone's name and Corgi number.

[Andrew Mawson]

offence

worth

Yes - that was my immediate reaction - taking the cover off hasn't broken any gas seals.

AWEM

[Bob Eager]

Just finished watching it.

The tame Corgi did say that taking the cover off was bad because it was a sealed case. I agree it's not gas carrying though.

They also didn't make it clear that it's not illegal if you're not doing it for gain.

[Rod]

I thought I had written down the suspect Corgi number correctly but, now the Corgi site deigns to respond without falling over, the name it comes up with is not the one they played with later. My fault? Or something odd?

[Mike Harrison]

I think he did use the phrase 'combustion seal' near the start, which I'd assume is normally the next one in from the main cover.

Probably not a big deal about not clarifying the 'paid for' thing though - anyone that knows what they're doing would know the score, and you really don't want to encourage have-a-go DIYers by telling them it isn't illegal.

[Bob Eager]

assume is normally

On our last boiler I think it was actually the outer cover (Potterton Netheat).

The boiler was a Vaillant, not that it narrows it down that much. Anyone?

[geoff]

In message , Doctor Drivel writes

What were you going to seal them in ?

[Andrew Mawson]

A boiler casing - silly.

AWEM

[YAPH]

The law (Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998) talks about working on gas appliances, not specifically about working on gas-carrying parts. In fact other work comes under the GSIUR: I think you'd find that working on a ventilator that serves a gas appliance is covered. (But I cba to trawl through the regs looking for chapter and verse so don't flame me if I'm wrong on that particular example.)

IANAL but I think the instant Mr Cowboy starts taking off covers into no-user-serviceable-parts-land he could be said to be doing gas work.

[dennis]

Any work done by a cowboy (other than ranching) is bad. However work done by some competent non corgi registered person is not the work of a cowboy.

I have no worries tackling gas work, as long as I know what I am doing. Fitting a CH boiler is not difficult. Finding a corgi workman that understands systems with five zones and controllers, etc. and is therefore competent is difficult.

[Doctor Drivel]

I agree, Maxie was sill.

[Doctor Drivel]

Near impossible. The other week I received a call from the owner of an old installation I was responsible for 7 years. ago. The owner had drained the system and fitted a new rad and never put inhibitor it. It sludged up. The local corgi bathroom changers came along with a pump and started to pump the system. It never worked an he was called back.

He rang me and said "where are the zone valves". I pointed out that he can see three pumps and it is a standard three pump system, using two CH zones. He was confused. He couldn't figure it out. I spoke to the owners and said I would not let anyone in my house who did not know what a standard three pump system was. I also told them that the where the idiot was standing in the garage, an in-line filter was on the boiler return, and has he cleared it. The fool never noticed it or probably didn't know what it was. It was caked up as it was doing its job.

I also pointed out that their pumping was against the check valves so was pretty useless as it was only pumping around 1/4 of the system, and they need to pump via the open vent, with the check valves.

And people think they are getting an expert because he has been taught to perform a gas soundness test and given a badge with CORGI on it. Shishhhhhhhh

[fred]

In my naivety, I'd like to think that it only related to work at risk of causing danger related an escape or mis-combustion of gas. The sort of acceptable work I was thinking would be opening the case to put a spanner on the back end of a flow pipe to tighten a leaky union, changing an ignition lead or replacing a leaking automatic air vent, no gas related risk as long as the combustion chamber isn't disturbed. As you say however I don't feel the need to dig too deep for an answer as it's highly unlikely that a paid worker will be laying hands on my boiler.

We all (here) know that no user serviceable parts means nothing, it just means that Mrs Miggins in her slippers is unlikely to be able to fix it herself and as suggested above, I was thinking more of competent non-corgis carrying out non-safety critical work on

Also, wouldn't dream of flaming you John, you're on the white list ;-)

[Jon]

"fred" wrote

I had a corgi guy in at the weekend to remove a gas fire and cap off the supply to it. He didn't blink an eye when I was explaining how I fixed my boiler earlier in the year when the PCB and thermistor needed swapping out. When I said I got a genuine replacement PCB for £35 off eBay, he said "you saved yourself a fortune!".

He was right :)

Contrary to this, when I put a post on another forum on the net asking for help with the same boiler, I was pounced on by half a dozen apparently corgi reg guys saying I should never have taken the cover off the boiler as I was not certified to!!

Jon

[BigWallop]

Most people who don't take time to learn about the facts of working with gas appliances, need certified. Just a pity it isn't CORGI that does that side of the job.

Anyone who is willing to learn the main facts, methods and precautions of any type works, at least has a chance of doing it with safety and competence. It's the nutter who thinks that it's just a pipe to blow gas through, is the one's who have to keep away from these appliances. It's because of them that these legislation's and criminal laws had to be introduced. It's not because of the competent DIYer doing his homework.

[Ed Sirett]

In this particular case (the boiler looked very much like a Vaillant Ecotec 837) the casing forms part of the 'room seal' as far as combustion is concerned. However any work that requires on gas appliance (the definiton of work is defined in the regs) requires competance and inthe case of paid work, qualifications and registration.

[Ed Sirett]

The rogues would be illegal whether they were doing for gain or not as they were grossly incompetent.

[geoff]

In message , Andrew Mawson writes

This is dIMM we're talking about - it would leak, obviously, not a proper seal

[fred]

I was hoping you might drop in on this one Ed.

I'm losing your track just about. "that requires . . . on . . . gas appliance", there seems to be a crucial omisson.

The drift I'm getting is that the room seal is viewed as a crucial safety element on a room sealed appliance and so the regs apply?

I suppose that means that on a room sealed boiler it has to be a corgi that does paid work on a water side leak (in the boiler) but on an older conventionally flued boiler taking room air (albeit through a vent) it might be ok for a non corgi to take off the unsealed case and fix water side for money (perhaps not).

I'm assuming it's ok for a non corgi to fully plumb the water side on a new installation and then leave the gas side and commissioning to Mr Woof? Once it is commissioned I imagine it then comes under the regs? Technically, could Mr Woof make a boiler gas safe, allow a non woof to do water side or electronic repairs legally then re-commission it?

In summary, it would appear that it wasn't BS after all. A shame as they just seemed so smug & self satisfied, it would be nice if they had got it wrong.