Midway Phone Socket

[Kroma]

Hello!

I was about to install a diy phone extension when I decided to investigate the contents of a blanked off 'socket' in my hallway (where I was to put the extension). It turns out that the blanked off extension houses a phone lead, all looped up and ready to go. I assume the lead comes FROM the aster socket in the lounge and goes to the socket upstairs. Problem solved... but...

I will of course not need to fit the extension any more (good - no need to cleat lots of wire along the back of the lounge and/or drill nasty holes everywhere) but I am a bit confused.

I've looked in the master socket (naughty me) and seen how it is wired. Yes - that's easy. I've looked in the upstairs socket and seen how that is wired - easy again.

But the 'blanked' socket houses a big white wire going between other sockets. Surely the wires contained 'within' won't have 'ends' to attach to the socket?

How can I connect this safely so that everything else continues to work. I've looked at

and that explains things well but doesn't account for the fact that all the sockets I've seen require the 'ends' of wires (and the special tools I've read about cut off the unused bits so you can't simply push the middle of the wired onto the connections in such a way that they continue their journey up to the next socket).

I hope I've made myself clear!

Any suggestions would be very welcome indeed.

Regards,

Daz

PS I almost had heart failure after looking inside the master socket - everything stopped working after I replaced the socket. It turns out that one of the 2 wires in the no 2 connector had worked loose (it was VERY messy in there)!

[Stuart]

Without actually seeing what you describe I would imagine that what you are seeing is the phone wire complete with it's outer sheathing ......If you CAREFULLY peel back the outer insulation you will find the various coloured wires within and it is those that you need to connect to the new phone socket as per the appropriate instructions .As you suggest it is best to use the appropriate tool to insert the wires without removing the insulation from these coloured wires .You can get these from various outlets incl Maplins etc .

Stuart

[Kroma]

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I peel back the white sheathing, won't I just get 8 (or 10) coloured bits which are on their way upstairs? How do I get them connected to a new socket AND let them continue their journey upstairs?

Daz

[Bob Eager]

Well, you cut them, then connect the ends to the same terminal in each case as they are in the extension upstairs. If there are any that aren't used, don't cut them.

BEWARE - you must disconnect the whole circuit from the phone line first. This is normally done by removing the lower front half of the master socket. If it has a one piece front, you're out of your depth because you aren't supposed to touch it. Best plan then is to get it converted by BT and then go ahead with the extension.

[Andy Pandy]

You probably wont need to cut them, in fact if there is not a lot of slack in the cable, you're probably better off NOT doing so.

Simply insert the correct colour wire in the appropriate slot and push. Job done.

Andy

[Dave Liquorice]

The amount of slack really does affect how to proceed. There really needs to be a loop about a foot long overall to give space to work comfortably.

As to the OP being worried about the lack of "ends" when he cuts the cable (assuming there is enough slack...) he will have two ends. Simply put both ends of each same coloured wire, the same direction on top of each other into the appropiate IDC slot and make the connection as normal.

/ Simply insert the correct colour wire in the appropriate slot and

The proper tool trims the "excess" wire automagically. B-) OK the bit of plastic that comes in the kits doesn't but then it's hardly up to making one IDC connection let alone 6. B-)

[Christian McArdle]

Even if the tool has a cutter, it is usually possible to turn it off. You can then connect up without cutting the wires, which will probably be good if there is insufficient slack.

Christian.

[Kroma]

Ah - my master socket is a one-piece. Strange, as the house I've just moved into was built circa 1990.

Will BT convert me to a 2-piece master socket for free?

I guess if I were to go ahead and touch the 1-piece master socket anyway, I'd simply have to detach the wires and reinsert them after the job is done? Actually, the wires in the master socket aren't fitted very well anyway as when I had a quick look inside (before realising that it WAS a master socket) one of the wires in position 2 fell out unbeknown to me and stopped everything from working. It was simple to diagnose and rectify though. The socket will be unscrewed again next week as I'm wallpapering and painting.

Daz

[Kroma]

In the master socket, slots 2 and 5 house 2 wires each. I've read that the IDC slots only hold a maximum of 2 wires and doubling up like this would require 4 wires in slots 2 and 5. How do I get round this?

Thanks,

Daz

[Christian McArdle]

If you want. I wouldn't even bother disconnecting.

Don't worry about it. Just make the connections.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

The cable passing through your target box should only have a single conductor per slot, so doubling up will only need 2 per slot.

The reason the master has two is probably that two extension cables have already been taken off it.

Christian.

[Bob Eager]

I was thinking about the cutting-through-the-cable bit, and shorting the

2 and 5 wires...

[Lurch]

On 26 Sep 2005 11:35:27 GMT, "Bob Eager" scrawled:

Doesn't do any (much) harm usually. Best to disconnect where possible but I don't supopose most people bother.

[Christian McArdle]

The procedure doesn't call for the shorting of the 2 and 5 wires. It doesn't even call for them to be cut. If using screw terminals, they need careful stripping. If using IDC, no need even for that. Even if accidentally cut, there will be no problem with the line.

Christian.

[Malcolm]

I'm an ex BT engineer, the NTE5A socket that has been used to terminate the incoming line was introduced to provide an interface between the BT wring and the customers own wiring when the powers that be decided people could buy their own extension kits rather than renting extensions from BT. Technically, if you don't have one of these master sockets fitted to the entry point of your service (cable or BT) then you are breaking the "law" and BT could charge you if its found that you altered the wiring and the supplier could charge you to put the system right and prosecute for tampering with "their" wiring. In reality this (as far as I'm awear) has never happened, unless some fraudulent offence was linked to the tampering.

Whilst I worked for BT in '88 to 93, we did several up-lifts if old cabling including installing new NTE5A sockets, so it might be worth contacting them to see if they would update the installation in your house. You could ask the engineer how much it would be to install the extension in his own time... just don't mention I told you :-)

Malcolm

You only need three wires out of the six (or possibly 8) that are in the cable. The line is normally carried on the blue pair connected to pins

2 and 5, with the bell cct being the orange on pin 3 (if memory serves me correctly)

H>

[Kroma]

Thanks for all this help guys. I'm quite confident with it now. I have bought a new socket (could only get the screw type though) and know exactly what to do with the wires.

My only concern is getting a shock or shorting everything out! I plan to cute the white sheath away very carefully and then to deal with each wire individually. Can I get a shock in this way?

Naturally, I'd remove the lower half of the master socket if I had the modern variety but alas I have the older style (in a really horrid brass finish)!

I may ask BT about installing a new master socket but if it costs it won't be worth my while (except for the fact that I know my new socket installation will be shock/short proof and that I'll have a nice new white socket in the lounge)!

If anybody has any further observations they would be welcome.

Thanks again,

Daz

[Mogweed]

The standing voltage on the line is 48v so no, you won't get a shock off it. However, if someone happens to ring you while you're hold of the wires, you'll get a belt then. Can't remember if ringing voltage is 88 or 110 but either way you'll know about it :o)

Mogweed.

[Malcolm]

You won't get shocked from a domestic phone line. At most you'll get a little tingle if you were holding both legs of the line and someone rang you at the same time. Normal voltage is just 50v DC, which rises to 70 when ringing.

Malcolm

Kroma wrote:

[Chip]

On 26 Sep 2005 10:47:49 -0700,it is alleged that "Kroma" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]

As others have noted, the standard voltage is 50V DC, with usually around 75V AC ringing. The simple way to avoid the danger of a shock, is to leave a phone in the master socket off hook for the duration of your work. This will drop the line voltage to normally under 10v, and obviously prevent it ringing.

[Owain]

It won't hurt the exchange if you short the line wires. I would suggest leaving a phone plugged in to the master socket and off-hook. That will prevent anyone phoning you while you're working on the wires - the 75V ringing voltage can give a bit of a tingle.

Caveat: the numbers on the screw extension socket may be the reverse of the master socket, if the master socket uses BT numbering.

Owain