Low Energy Stick Bulbs

[dennis]

Yes and they had the mmr jab.

[Tim S]

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:

Did you read up on it - or did you take the authorities assurances at their word?

Not being funny, but one can get suspicious after the number of times the government has been caught being economical with the truth.

Personally, I did start some reading into it, but without being a specialist, it seemed easier to look into the single jab option - which of course would have been just as good at protecting the sprogs.

The difference is - I trust my GP, especially if he, being a specialist and more able to discern the nonsense from the good on medical matters, has chosen it for his children. Conversely I trust the government about as far as I can throw my own b*ll*cks whilst wearing a straitjacket.

Cheers

Tim

[dennis]

I read and asked questions. Once you read how the "link" was found you knew it was cr@p. "Oh look I have 7 people with autism and they all had mmr so it must be the mmr that caused it"

Except of course it isn't. There needs to be gaps between the jabs so there is a longer period when the child is not protected. Every vaccination has a risk, so you increase that risk by having separate jabs.

It was a GP that started the whole mess in the first place.

[Huge]

Through painful experience, I now reckon the ratio is 4:1. So an 11W CFL is the equivalent of a 40W GLS. Maybe.

Which is another good reason for not believing it.

And your eyes are the only measure that matters. It's your money.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In many cases, subsidised by the energy companies as part of their unofficial agreement not to get hit by a windfall tax.

[Andrew Gabriel]

CFLs generally make for very poor small reflector lamps due to the large size of the light source. (Reflector lamps really need a light source which is small compared with the reflector size.) I normally suggest you think of a 4:1 ratio for the power requirement of a filament verses CFL for similar light output. In the case of reflector lamps drop this to 3:1 at best, and

2:1 for smaller sized lamps (like R63).

If you can get an R80 into the fitting (and you can with some R63 fittings by removing an anti-glare shield), then you might take a look at the GE Genura R80 CFL. This is designed to replace a 100W flood lamp, and is still the only CFL I know of which puts out more light than the filament lamp is replaces.

It is a completely different technology from conventional CFLs, and unfortunately remains at a high price, but it's still worth it if you do the cost calculations. It does take a minute to run up to full light output, but unlike a conventional CFL, it doesn't care how often you switch it -- it has no electrodes to wear out. Its life depends mainly on how well you keep it cool, so don't use it in an enclosed or very pooly ventilated fitting.

Take note of the colour temperature you are buying. It comes in

2700K to match filament lamps, and 3500K for office use (although that would also be fine in a brightly lit kitchen or work room if you aren't mixing in filament lamps).

[Andrew Gabriel]

That should have been about the same as a 40W lamp. Perhaps you didn't allow it to warm up for long enough. This is particularly important if it hasn't been used for ages (e.g. stock sitting on a shelf somewhere).

Also note that light distribution from CFL's usually isn't as directionally uniform as that from a filament lamp. There are sometimes some directions with significantly lower output, depending how much tube wall is facing you.

I'm afraid I don't hold Which in high regard. Whenever they cover something I know about in detail, their reports are complete crap. My parents still get it, and thinking I'm interested in most technology issues (I am), that I'll be keen to read what Which had to say on the matter (I'm not). On the few occasions I do read it, it's complete crap.

The test you did is actually not too bad. It's sort of how a bit of an integrating sphere works (which is the proper way to measure the light output). Given the non uniform light output, you would need to do it having repositioned the lamp a number of times though.

[Tim S]

Huge coughed up some electrons that declared:

On a side track...

Had access to Which when I were a lad, mostly because there wasn't much else for the parents to consult.

So I did a free trial subscription out of interest a couple of years back when I was looking to buy a couple of home appliances.

I know I've been spoiled with seriously in depth free review and test websites for things like motherboards, digital cameras and suchlike, but I could not believe how unthorough and weak and lacking in detail Which reviews are.

If I read a hoover review, I expect lots of pictures: pictures showing all the widgets, pictures showing each in use on a set of standard tests (like hoovering up coal dust off a white carpet, flour, dog hair, wife hair), comments on the build quality and so forth.

Totally feeble it was. I don't know how they are still in business...

Cheers

Tim

[Bruce]

I agree - they are appalling, and really of very little practical use.

The worst Which? reviews are the car reviews in "Motoring Which?"

[Huge]

Always were. They trashed the Mini Metro, not because it was a rusting deathtrap, which it was, but because it had a "weak gearbox". Their testing methodology? Maximum revs and engage first, without using the clutch. It broke. Quelle suprise. I never looked at it again.

[Huge]

£34???? You're having a laugh, right?

[Bruce]

Shop around, and you will find them at £18 to £19.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I've never seen them anything like that expensive. Last time I noticed, they were around £18 in B&Q. If you buy a box of them (which is only 5, IIRC) from a wholesaler, they were only £11.50 each (probably +VAT) last time I did it.

Over the life of the lamp, you're looking at something around £40 energy saving if swapping out 60W lamps combined with much higher light output), or £75 energy saving if replacing 100W lamps (and slightly higher light output). They are flood lamp beam patterns which can also improve lighting when used as downlighters.

Note however that some of these can go on for almost ever, well past their rated lifetimes. I noticed some of the ones I fitted were getting dim, then realised they'd done 3 years continuous use (>25,000 hours) when they were only rated for 8000 hours at the time. I think they're rated for 15,000 hours nowadays, although I only assumed 10,000 hours for the monetry figures above (which is the rated life of the last ones I bought and still have).

[pete]

Feeble maybe. However so far as I can work out, there are three reasons why they're still in business.

1.) People trust them 2.) There's nothing better 3.) Most people want a "touchy feely" review. They want to be told what to buy. They're turned off by too much information - especially if it involves numbers and if it requires them to make a judgement, themselves.

Personally, what I'd want from a vacuum cleaner review would be something akin to what you get in PC reviews (as you say). Viz. How much it sucks (units, what? Newtons?) What's the biggest (and smallest) thing it will eat MTBF Cost & availability of accessories: bags, bands etc. Most likely things to go wrong and cost of repairs.

Even if they could get this information, none of it is likely to appeal to (how to put this) the person who will do most of the cleaning in a family.

Information such as what accessories it comes with I can find out from the 'net. However, it is good to get other people's opinions on the build quality - it's just that if this is all I'd get from "Which", then the content doesn't seem worth the cost.

[mark]

Why are you hi-jacking this thread?

[Dave Liquorice]

But isn't that a "real world" test for Which? subscribers?

[Huge]

That was the first hit in Google. I expect I could have found cheaper.

Trouble is, at these prices you've got to be damn sure you're going to get a decent life. And I'm not yet convinced.

And some of them can die almost immediately, and at these prices, that's a disaster.

[Tim S]

mark coughed up some electrons that declared:

It's a related side comment. Are you saying nothing ever goes off at a tangent on uk.d-i-y?

;->

[Mike]

The differing requirements being the other people have eyesight.

CFL's are just like combi boilers, some people love them but the well informed know they are a load of s**te.

[Mike]

The view of an ophthalmologist I was speaking with last year was that you need a digital retina with automatic iris compensation for these new fangled 'lights'. Mr Swan's lamps are the only ones my eyes are compatible with :)