Loo advice

[Anna Kettle]

I am about to fit out my ensuite which will be small but perfectly formed

It would be good to have a 'back to the wall' loo to free up some floorspace, but the stud wall behind the loo does not have room for a tank in it. However the loft is just above, with plenty of space, so I'd like to have a loo which is a bit like a high level loo, but with the tank above the ceiling and out of sight

but a chain through the ceiling is going to look a bit odd, not to mention drafty, so I am imagining a rod and lever system which runs inside the stud wall, terminating in a button or lever behind the loo

I dont think that I will be very successful at doing a home made version of this, so is such a device manufactured and on the market (I've not seen one in any of my catalogues), or is there a source of the bits that I can bolt together?

Anna

-- Anna Kettle Lime plaster repair and conservation Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc Tel:    (+44)  01359 230642 Mob:  (+44)  07976 649862 Please look at my website for examples of my work at:

 

[John]

Great idea - better flush and why would anyone want a tank of water taking up space in a small bathroom if the loft is available (I will be watching with interest)

[Andrew Gabriel]

There are pressure operated flushes which use a push button operating a tiny belows and a length of plastic tubing.

[John Rumm]

Many of the concealed cisterns these days use a pneumatic connection between the button and the flap valve. Typically one or two small thin plastic tubes that would be easy to extend for your application.

[Andy Hall]

Yes.

Grohe make what is normally used as a concealed cistern. Go to their web site and use EAU2 as a search term.

This will give the cistern itself plus an airbutton accessory which will do dual flush as well if you want.

You could fit this into the loft and put a longer flush pipe on it, although you might need to fit something in it to restrict the flow to the pan slightly

[Rod]

The idea sounds fine...

Both our flap-valve cisterns have pneumatic releases. It would be trivial to feed the very thin plastic pipe from the button to wherever it is needed.

You still need the flush pipe. The way that curves might actually be a limit. Can it go from horizontal at the pan inlet to vertical *within* the thickness of the wall? Seems very tight to me.

I have just measured one of ours - 160mm deep cupboard plus 18mm front panel. The cistern itself can't be much more than 140mm deep. I'd guess the flush pipe turns 90 degrees in 100mm - might be possible to reduce that a touch.

You can get cisterns down as slim as 80mm.

The cistern might take longer to fill due to its height (depending on how you are feeding it).

If it does end up in the loft, make sure you lag the cistern properly!

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, high level flushes use a thinner flush pipe, to avoid plastering the toilet contents up the opposite wall...

Given regs were relaxed to allow flapper valves a while back, seems like we should be able to use blowout jet toilets, which don't need any cistern at all. Not seen them in the UK though.

[Andy Hall]

Do you mean like those in the U.S. where there is a fitment just above the pan and a lever that you push off centre.?

[John Stumbles]

BES do the MacDee Pneu-compact (search

for their p/n

16053) for about £45 inc VAT & delivery. Has a pneumatic push-button operated single-volume flush where the button can be about 2-3 metres from the cistern with the supplied tubing, or the other end of the street if you extended it!

You'd also need to extend the flush pipe. It comes with a standard L shaped one about 300-400mm long, but I think you could use 40mm compression fittings to extend with 40mm pushfit or solvent-weld pipe. (I might be about to find out: I'm currently installing one for some folks who complain that the existing cistern wasn't clearing the solids on first flush. Assuming the MacDee mounted at normal height doesn't work any better plan B is to try it at high level.)

If that's too much £££ you could get a plastic cistern or even a plastic central heating header tank from a skip, and fit it with a flap valve. These are operated by lifting the flap (like a bath/basin plug on a hinge) and would be easy to DIY a linkage to, either a la old-fashioned servant bells in posh houses, or bicycle brake cable (Bowden cable) or as Heath-Robinson as you like. (I did this to replace a cast-iron bell syphon on an ancient but rather funky cast-iron high-level cistern - see

[Anna Kettle]

Excellent! It looks like the idea is a goer

Anna

-- Anna Kettle Lime plaster repair and conservation Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc Tel:    (+44)  01359 230642 Mob:  (+44)  07976 649862 Please look at my website for examples of my work at:

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, although there are various different styles of flush controls. Can be timed, or for as long as you press. Need at least 2 bar water pressure.

[Andy Hall]

As it were :-)

[Donwill]

I have a loo which came with an attached sink, marble top and cupboard.

The relevant info is that the loo flush is activated by a button on the front of the cupboard frame, behind the button is a little fexible plastic box similar to an aneroid capsule, it is connected to a flexible plastic tube which goes to the tank which is hidden inside the cupboard..

Pressing the button collapses the aneroid capsule, transmitting a pressure increase down the tube , which causes the tank to flush. I havn't investigated the tank end of the tube but I would imagine that there is a similar aneroid capsule there which expands to operate the flush release valve. So a remote operating tank flush does exist.

Hope this helps.

Don

[Donwill]

Sorry, when I sent my reply, my computer hadn't downloaded all the other answers to Anna's question so please ignore my contribution which, clearly has already been covered. Regards Don

[Andy Dee]

There is a problem in extending a pneumatic flush. As the pipe is lengthened, the air pressure increase will drop due to the larger volume of air in the pipe and at some point, fail to operate the remote end.

A

[Rod]

Technically true. But both of ours came with several feet of pipe - I did not cut much, if any, out - and they are fine. Pretty sure that there would have been enough to reach a cistern mounted in the ceiling void immediately over the push (assuming fairly direct route).

[Mary Fisher]

It certainly does! This question and its answers are fascinting - espectially the one about using brake cable.

Trouble is, if anyone but you will use your new contraption you'll have to have a printed notice to tell folk how to flush it ... :-)

Mary

[ALex]

Extending the pneumatic system may work ok,but finding a flush pipe that will work from loft to pan will be much more dificult. Never seen one and been in the business 40 years,flush pipes tend to be manufactured for hideaway systems and are not normally more than 600mm in length

Alex

[Rod]

But sometimes they are:

[John Stumbles]

I rather like the idea of finding an old fashioned bell pull (the sort with a disc set into the wall beside the front door, with a knob on a rod recessed into the disc, IYKWIM) and arranging that to work my cloakroom WC. (But having it in the loo, not at the front door, of course. (Oh, I don't know, could be interesting :-)))