Long ladder - a way to help keep the top of it in place

[James Harris]

I need to hire a long ladder to reach up about 8 metres or so to a number of places near windows. For extra safety I would like to have some way to ensure the top of the ladder will not be able to move too far from where it gets put.

I have seen that there are ladder hooks that allow an escape ladder to be

*suspended* from a window but that is overkill in this case. The top of the ladder I will use should not be able to move significantly even without some means of holding it in place and the bottom of the ladcder will have some one or some thing securing it. I just wanted some extra protection against the top of the ladder moving too far.

Is there any standard or recommended way to do this? Am I being overly cautious?

I had in mind an inverted U shape that sat like a saddle over the bottom of the open window frame. I could make a wooden one if necessary (though it could be a bit bulky). A good idea or not? A rope would be tied to this and to one of the upper rungs of the ladder.

James

[Andy Burns]

Can you safely reach out of the window (or on the first trip up the ladder) to drill and insert some eye-anchor bolts?

[michael adams]

Why not run it up past the window and tie a rope to a rung directly outside of the window opening, pass the rope through the open window and secure it inside the window, by tying it a piece of wood or similar long enough to bridge the window opening from inside ?

You first need to place the ladder in situ without climbing it. Then through the open window mark the appropriate rung. Drop the rope down to the ground through the window tying one end to something in the room.

Go downstairs, close/lower the ladder and tie the other end of the rope to the marked rung. Then open the ladder and again place it against the wall. Go upstairs pull up the rope which is tied to the rung outside the window and attach it your piece of wood or whathever. You could cover the end of the wood etc in old blankets fixed with duck tape so as to avoid damaging the decor in the room.

michael adams

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[Peter Parry]

is worth reading.

[michael adams]

Why not run it up past the window and tie a rope to a rung directly outside of the window opening, pass the rope through the open window and secure it inside the window, by tying it a piece of wood or similar long enough to bridge the window opening from inside ?

You first need to place the ladder in situ without climbing it. Then through the open window mark the appropriate rung. Drop the rope down to the ground through the window tying one end to something in the room.

Go downstairs, close/lower the ladder and tie the other end of the rope to the marked rung. Then open the ladder and again place it against the wall. Go upstairs pull up the rope which is tied to the rung outside the window and attach it your piece of wood or whathever. You could cover the end of the wood etc in old blankets fixed with duck tape so as to avoid damaging the decor in the room.

Maybe I should add that on the ocassions I did this, the faffing around was necessary as the window openings weren't big enough to securly tie the rope on from upstairs, which otherwise would have made things a lot simpler.

michael adams

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michael adams

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[Clive George]

All good stuff.

Personally I use a rope and harness as backup, but then I got a reasonable amount of experience using those as a caver, and have the kit. I'm a huge amount happier working at any height if I'm tied on to something.

[Nightjar]

I fitted a number of screw eyes to the soffit boards, spaced so that I can reach one on each side without reaching. I now tie the ladder to those.

[LumpHammer]

Assuming there's room for it, have you considered hiring a mobile scaffold tower (the kind that comes in pieces) rather than a ladder? I find them less scary and easier to work on than ladders.

[James Harris]

I'll need to move the ladder around ... but I might be able to use these.

James

[James Harris]

That's useful. It seems to say that if the ladder is secured at the top then the bottom fixing may not be needed.

James

[James Harris]

...

That sounds far more expensive. Besides, the area at the base may be uneven/unsound.

James

[Clive George]

It is more expensive, but they are a lot better than ladders.

If the area at the base is uneven/unsound, that's going to be a lot worse for a ladder than for a scaffold tower.

As plenty of people have proven in the past, ladders work. See eg John Noakes climbing Nelson's column, including the overhang, with no safety. Ditto Fred Dibnah. Or the guy climbing the very big aerial.

OTOH as a smaller number of people have proven, when things go wrong things get very painful or even lethal very quickly. See plenty of youtube videos, and worse tales from people.

What are you actually planning to do?

[James Harris]

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Oh, my! I found this

My stomach is still in a knot!

No safety harness at all! This should have been part of the recent H&S thread. It's amazing how much UK attitudes to safety have changed in just a few decades.

James

[tony sayer]

In article , James Harris scribeth thus

They could have taught him to climb a ladder properly.

Hold onto the bloody RUNGS not the stiles!.

If he's have slipped he wouldn't have been able to hold on he'd have had insufficient grip. Especially on the reverse overhang bit.

[Nightjar]

Rungs can break, especially on wooden ladders.

[tony sayer]

In article , Nightjar

[michael adams]

I'm no expert but Fred Dibnah always held onto the stiles.

When climbing ladders anyway. Overhangs were a different matter.

I'd always assumed that that was because both hands remained in contact with the ladder at all times, by sliding up the stiles. Whereas with the rungs its necessary to keep taking one hand off to move it up to the next but one rung. So that a lot of the time only one hand is in contact with the ladder.

michael adams

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[Nightjar]

[fred]

In article , tony sayer writes

I hear what you say and will try it out next time. I have a feeling that the preying mantis type grip will feel a bit odd and perhaps less stable.

A rellie who is a building surveyor (and should know better) has had 2 wooden ladders pop their stiles from the rungs whilst on them.

One was on a pristine virtual antique that had been handed from aged father to daughter (wife), not a scuff or paint mark on it (he may have polished it). Rellie gets half way to gable height and the stiles part without warning. Picture body wedged close to bottom of the stiles with rungs scattered to the 4 winds. Wife comes out and is not pleased, "what have you done to my dad's ladder?" she says . . .

The other was doing a favour for a pal on a church steeple. Fixed ladders inside but all very old and something wrong with the electrics so it was a torch in the pocket job. On the last flight, probably a good

150ft off the deck he feels the stiles start to part. Life flashes before him but a combination of clenched buttocks and a vice like clamping grip of the stiles got him to the bottom.

Yes, he does know how to check and climb a ladder but it's those moments when doing a rushed last minute favour when best practice goes out the window.

I don't imagine aerial riggers allow themselves to slip into complacency, the exposure must be a frequent reminder of what would happen if they came off.

[fred]

In article , michael adams writes

Fred always did it in style :-)

Never saw him use anything but a wooden ladder so maybe Colin's mention of holding the ladder together by the stiles was the old school way to do it.