London tube Ticket (OT)

[tim.....]

They do

tim

[bert]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Very difficult to calculate. The reason behind the 09:30 start was to avoid loading up buses in the rush hour and people will normally avoid evening rush hour if possible. The counter argument was of course that whereas a pensioner may have made an earlier journey thus supporting a bus service use by people going to work, they would then delay their journey until mid-morning. Then there is the not inconsiderable financial benefit tot he LA by the fact that for older pensioners especially it reduces isolation and loneliness and so reduces demand for care and health services. Again very difficult to quantify. Of course in going out many pensioners are spending money in their local economies, perhaps proving free care service for a family member who can then go out to work, or doing voluntary work, much of which would reduce without the bus pass.

[bert]

In message , Roland Perry writes

Then I know of no reason why it should not qualify.

[stuart noble]

Mostly on their way to Wetherspoons

[bert]

Exactly - spending money in the local economy.

[chrisj.doran%proemail.co.uk]

Is that the case everywhere? A year or two ago our (London) LA said it was = =A3200 p.a. in an appeal for people not to apply for one if they didn't rea= lly need it. There was a story of someone who went to get one for his wife,= and when asked why she wasn't collecting it herself, explained: "She's per= manently bedridden".

If it's per journey, how is it measured on trains, tubes, and trams, when y= ou don't have to touch in and out, except to open barriers, which don't exi= st at all stations?

Chris

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If it costs 200 quid per annum simply to issue and administer a pass without it being used, something is very wrong.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 18:06:57 on Thu, 17 Jan

2013, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

The costs will be in each LA's budget, I don't know if anyone has collected them all together in one place. The amounts are reported in the press from time to time. Here's one:

£1.5m "actuals" in Cambridge City from April 2008-Jan 2009.

(And an estimate of £3.2m annually for the whole of Cambs+Peterborough)

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 10:54:06 on Fri, 18 Jan

2013, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

It seems reasonable to conclude that the cost (travel plus admin) to the LA's budget averages £200 per pass issued.

[John Williamson]

That would make sense. About twenty to issue the pass, which round here is a smartcard, and one journey per day on average.

[bert]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Especially as it lasts 5 years

[bert]

But London is an exceptional case as it includes underground travel also. This is more likely to encourage use by working age men and use of public transport higher up the socio-economic scale than in the shire counties.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think everyone is missing my point. If that journey is made out of rush hour when there is spare capacity on a bus or train which is running anyway, can it really be costed at the cash fair price? Especially if it's not clear that the OAP would have made and paid for that journey if it weren't 'free'. I frequently use my Freedom pass to do a journey which isn't essential - or likely wouldn't have done if it had to be paid for. And I'm fairly sure this isn't unusual.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:11:08 on Fri, 18 Jan

2013, bert remarked:

And no doubt such considerations were taken into account when the £200 figure was arrived at (and it's an average, remember).

[polygonum]

Are pensioners not allowed on underground using card in Glasgow?

[bert]

As I said in a previous post metropolitan areas generally offer over and above the statutory minimum and I gave the reason why they are able to do so.

[bert]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Then what you are referring to is the marginal cost which is much more difficult to calculate. In some cases it may change a service from a subsidised one to a commercial one. Our LA has just announced cuts to subsidised service and they are predominantly early morning and evening when pensioners generally do not travel.

[bert]

In message , Roland Perry writes

The post in which the £200 first appeared referred to London IIRC, so I take it to mean average for London not average for the country as a whole BICBW and if so average fro London I would expect to be higher.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 14:47:14 on Fri, 18 Jan

2013, bert remarked:

I agree.

And also because they have many more buses (and other options) than elsewhere.

ps. I was looking at the grounds for getting a pass just now, and you can also get one if disabled, which seems to include anyone refused a driving licence on medical grounds (as well as those with more immediately obvious mobility issues).

[John Williamson]

It depends how you work out the "cost" of a journey. The cost to the council is the price agreed with the operators of public transport in the area where the journey takes place. In London and some other cities, the operator and the local authority are, in effect, the same entity.

The cost to the operator per person per mile is the cost of the vehicle per mile divided by the number of passengers.

The added cost to the operator of carrying an extra passenger is minutely more than twice (One lot for boarding, the other for getting off) the extra fuel used to accelerate from a standing start to running speed over and above the fuel used for constant speed running. assuming only one person boards or alights per stop, unless the extra passenger use due to the pass triggers a requirement for an extra or larger vehicle. The labour cost is near to zero, as any extra time the stop takes is absorbed in the reserve time in the timetable.