Loft extension - fire doors

Hi,

I'm not understanding what the requirement for fires doors with loft extensions is? Can someone explain?

My intention is to go from 2 floors in a Victorian end-terrace to 3 floors, putting a habitable bedroom in the loft.

Do all internal doors need to be replaced with 30 minute fire-check doors with self-closers or rising butt hinges?

Is it only the door entering / exiting the new loft room that needs a fire check door?

Anything else I need to know about fire regulations for loft extension?

Thanks

Clive

Reply to
Clive
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AIUI you need a "protected route" from the 2nd floor room(s) all the way to an exit from the building. Again AIUI, that would typically be all doors opening on to that route to be fire doors and all walls to have 30 minute fire resistance.

You would also need a "means of escape" window to your 2nd floor room(s).

Building inspector may also be interested in the adequacy of the stairs to evacuate the number of people likely to need them in an emergency (width, steepness, handrails etc) and the adequacy of floors to act as a fire barrier (as well as the usual structural stuff)

Chapter and verse here:

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Reply to
dom

All internal doors opening onto the route from the loft to the front door (or nearest exit door), except for bathroom doors. There is, in some areas, an anomaly. Any *existing* solid doors may be allowed to remain even if they are not rated fire doors. Any new doors must be rated and any glazed doors replaced with rated doors. All with self closing mechanism.

No

Yes

Exit window at front of house fully opening (Velux or similar) with lower edge (AFAICR) within 1300mm of gutter (assuming front of house accessible from road)

30 minute fire protection between loft and room(s) below. Generally 80mm rockwool nailed between joists and plasterboard and 18mm flooring sufficient.

All sides of loft conversion that open onto old loft areas above rest of house need to bo 30min rated. Fireline plasterboard (bloody heavy) with

100mm rockwool, held with netting behind, covers insulation and this requirement.

Linked fire alarms, one in loft and one in hallway. Usually mains preferred but battery powered acceptable.

Ask Building Control for full list and no liability accepted etc.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

Bottom edge of window to be between 900 and 1100mm of interior floor level (or built in steps to make them so). Not sure about distances to gutters. Doesn't have to be at the front. Just so the descent isn't into an enclosed area that might be inaccessible for a rescue.

Reply to
dom

It has to be accessible using a ladder from the road - I believe he said it was a terraced house.

Reply to
Bob Mannix

AIUI, the new regs have all habitable room doors (not bathroom) onto the escape route to be replaced with fire doors, but self-closers are no longer required (thereby acknowlegding the fact that most self- closers are propped open which makes them less safe in reality). Simon.

Reply to
sm_jamieson

When we had the loft in our old house converted to make a 3rd floor in 2003.

At that time the building regulations required all NEW doors that opened on the ground, first floor and second floor landings to be fires door and all existing doors to be fitted with auto-closers.

It's not necessarily the only door. As it will be a new door it will need to be a fire door. Any replacements doors on the other floors would also need to be fire doors.

NB - this is based on our experiences in 2003.

We had to have a fire escape loft window fitted. It was on the sloping side (we had a full width/depth rear dormer) and the bottom of the window was about 18" above the floor.

NB - this is based on our experiences in 2003.

It's worth chatting to your local BCO as they're usually very helpful.

Guy

Reply to
Guy Dawson

The requirement to replace the existing doors is a new and important change over what we were able to do in 2003.

Guy

Reply to
Guy Dawson

This is made a little more complex due to recent changes in the rules. You used to be able to used firecheck doors only on the new habitable rooms, and then simply add self closers to the other doors that open onto the escape routes (as long as there were no glass panels in the existing doors etc). However this is no longer the case.

You will now need fire doors on all habitable rooms that open onto the escape route.

Which means you cop the full requirements...

Doors yes, but not requirement for closers now.

Not any more.

Read through the approved document for full details. A shortlist would include:

The ceiling to the second floor will need to resit fire for at least 30 mins. 12mm plasterboard with skim over would be ok. 9mm PB would required additional protection such as rockwook infill over chicken wire fixed to the joists.

You will need mains powered interlinked smoke alarms on all three storeys.

The means of escape window rules have also changed since I did mine. You will need to refer to the approved document for that.

Reply to
John Rumm

The joiner who did the loft conversion in our last house (Edwardian terrace) was tearing his hair out over the removal of the alternative escape provisions, and the insistence on fir doors all the way down. He reckoned it would seriously affect demand once people realised that fire doors in older houses entail fire door frames, with knock-on effect on their original architraves and skirting. Not to mention cost.

When I was looking on eBay for doors for my current project, I found a few listings for complete sets of lovely old doors, that Building Control had insisted be ripped out because of loft conversions. I think there's a bit of leeway in the regs, in theory, to allow for architectural merit, but I don't know how that's being applied. I suppose regulations that fail to prevent the replacement of sliding sashes with uPVC aren't going to provide much protection :-/

Regards Richard

Reply to
geraldthehamster

But if he makes reproduction fire doors that look like the originals, he could make a killing. Simon.

Reply to
sm_jamieson

AIUI to the features mentioned in those with listed buildings status.

Reply to
dom

If my understanding is correct, you ought to be able to keep all the existing frames and architraves etc, and just replace the door stops with deeper ones (25mm).

Yup the doors themselves are more of a problem with the new regs.

Reply to
John Rumm

He reckoned there wasn't room to do this with a lot of older door frames, plus you have the brush strips in the frame.

Regards Richard

Reply to
geraldthehamster

Do you need to do that if you put intumescent strips in the door?

I am well out of date on this stuff, but in my BCO days you could keep panelled doors if they were stripped and then painted with Nullifire intumescent paint. Not cheap in materials or time so it was hardly ever done. For older houses the favoured approach was standard flush fire doors with planted mouldings to make dummy panels.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

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