They would do a block of flats in a day.
They would do a block of flats in a day.
I kinda forgotted that :)
I guess if matching bricks could not be found, complementary bricks could be used with a little decorative patterning. Then it forms a mildly decorative band along the top.
So how could the roof structure be modified to not need to use the joists? The only structure I can think of would be an A shaped one, which would require stronger woodwork and lose head height. As well as be less stable.
Now I see why its not very practical.
Regards, NT
They huf and they puf and they blow your house down.... :-)
.andy
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Just starting a loft conversion my self - if you are a semi competent diyer consider this. Planning should not be a problem for a bungalow. New joists can be placed on existing wall plate or hung from wall plate
- I'm using the new composite I beam wooden joists - go to Travis Perkins etc and they design and quote for you - all accepted by the Building Control Officer - also lightweight and straight so can be handeled by one person. Insulation will be a large part of the cost - needs to be 0.3 for refurbishment. Mines going to cost 4-5k (proably 15k if done by a builder). Neil
Thanks - this is just the kind of information I was looking for! Will go to our local Travis P. and see if they have details.
Cheers Dave R
To prevent impact sound travelling through, have the ceiling on the ground floor on the existing joists and the floor above on the TJI "I" beams. Do not have the "I" beams touch the existing joists or the ceiling below. Fill the void with Rockwool bats tight up against the "I" beams.
Best go way over building regs ininsulation. The levels are to increase in a few years so bets get to those levels at least. You are saving 10K so extra on insulation is nothing.
Read this report. It give the insulation levels for various countries, etc. It virtually castigates the British way of doing things.
There are lots of other considerations such as tieing the wall plate to new joists, if the old ceiling joists are removed, insulating walls etc. etc. Neil
"The Association for the Conservation of Energy (ACE) is a lobby organization which also carries out policy research on energy conservation."
"Membership of ACE is limited to twenty-four UK based companies which have substantial interest in energy conservation equipment and services. Current members include controls manufacturers, energy service companies, and manufacturers and distributors of insulation materials."
Not exactly impartial or without vested interest.......
.andy
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:42:28 +0000 (UTC), a particular chimpanzee named snipped-for-privacy@alumni.caltech.edu (Niel A. Farrow) randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Bear in mind that these type of joists have their limitations; looking at the literature
If they keep on increasing, we will eventually be buying blocks of insulation, not houses...
When I was a lad there was ice on the INSIDE of the windows in winter.
MM
Same here. I miss watching the crystals grow, like feathers or flowers ... and pressing a warm penny (a proper penny) on the patterns (like fractals) to make a peephole.
We do still get ice on the inside of the single glazed windows of our old caravans, in winter. We solved that by clipping woolen car blankets to the OUTSIDE of the windows overnight and we can still have the windows open a little.
Mary
You had windows? You were lucky . . .
(Apologies to Monty Python)
Oh, we had windows. Glass, now...
At least the ice will have stopped the winter winds.
Mary
>
There might be a plan C....
The new joists may be able to go perpendicular & under the existing joists. Loft headroom is maintained at the expense of first floor headroom, of course a new ceiling is also required. This route seems to work quite well in standard Victorian / Edwardian terraces at low material cost although arguably greater disruption.
Mine will be 9" deep so hanging from the 3" wall plate I loose 6" height from the rooms below (ceilings are dropping, lath and plaster needs to come down anyway). However, they will be flush with the wall plate so that when I remove the old ceiling joists I gain 3". These joists are also straight, don't warp, can be set at 600mm centres, have knock outs for cables and pipes, and come in lengths up to 45 feet?. Being much lighter than solid wood they can be handled by one person. To get them you take in your rough plans which are sent out to the firm that supplies them (Travis Perkins do it in house) who design the floor and produce a laminated plan which is accepted by Building Control. They are more expensive but they do have many advantages. Neil
Nice trick if you can do it. What I found was that to insert the new floor joists, I needed to cut away tie beams that run perpendicular to the original joists. These were typically placed in the middle of the span of the longer ceiling joists to give lateral support and also to spread the load of the ceiling over several adjacent beams.
To stop the ceilings sagging when you cut through the ties you need to replicate the function of these beams. The usual way to do this is to add noggins between the new joists that can be fixed to the old ceiling joists to brace them. You also need to make sure that you strap each ceiling joist to something solid before you take out the tie beam, and until you have fixed it to the noggin.
The down side of doing this is you now have a point of contact between the floor and ceiling joists.
Exactly. That is what SIP panels are. Insulation sandwiched between OSB boards. They are strong enough to form the structure of a house. So the insulation holds up the house.
If the existing joists are only holding up the ceiling in the extension, then they don't need strutting.
Actually they do (or did in our case) - for two reasons: Firstly if you remove them then chances are you will sustain damage to the ceiling below - because they will sag over time (even with the ties they had already sagged a couple of inches in the centre of the span over the years.
Secondly, the BCO would insist they were there, are hence would not pass the floor structure without.
If the existing joists were short enough (under 3m say) you may then get away with removing the ties.
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