Lock locations

I just wondered why Yale locks were always fitted at eye level but mortise locks were fitted half way up the door (traditionally)

Reply to
John
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If there were no pre-ordained conventions to cloud your

judgment, wouldn't you still fit the lock that provides security

in the middle where it will do most good, and the latch

that adds convenience and privacy in the most accessible

(to an adult) place?

Reply to
Graham.

A mortice is a real lock designed to prevent people breaking in and goes in the strongest part of the door.

The Yale is termed a "night latch" by the yanks and that just about sums it up.

Reply to
EricP

In article , John writes

The most common and vicious form of attack for a door [*] is kicking-in so it makes sense to keep the strongest protection at waist height or below. If using 2 reasonable locks as you describe, I'd have the mortice at just above knee height and a deadlocking cylinder just below shoulder height.

Having the mortice half way up isn't that great an idea as it leaves a bit too much spring/flex in the lower part of the door making it a weak point.

The top cylinder on its own is just to stop the wind blowing the door open.

[*] Unless it's with a sledge hammer
Reply to
fred

You can't fit a mortice lock at or near a mortice & tennon joint in the door cos it weakens it, so it has to go above or below. You can fit a Yale almost anywhere.

So for max security on a door with a M&T joint halfway ish up it makes sense to have one lock below & one above the halfway ish point. Since the Yale is used more frequently it makes sense to have in in the top half.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Not many people try that sort of thing though;-)

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

Incidentally - I was thinking back to the good old days before break ins. Our old house only had a Yale front and a surface type of lock on the back door. I suspect this was typical.

Reply to
John

In article , ARWadsworth writes

There was a spate of it a good few years back, top floor tenement flats (least likely to be disturbed) with the door taken out by a sledge hammer. My mate's place got done that way, the neighbours heard the noise but assumed it was someone with the builders in. Since then I've taken that kind of attack into account when designing my lock layout, it's also why I have a shock sensor on the door frame with a v loud sounder beside it.

I think I'm pretty safe now unless some big sparkie takes a run at my door ;-)

Reply to
fred

Anyone seen that Cops with Cameras show? They use the 'big red key' to batter doors down. Oddly uPVC doors seem harder to knock down than timber doors.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

I nearly made a comment about big fat coppers not being able to lift their hammers above waist height but thought better of it.

A UPVC door will likely have multipoint locking so will resist a moderate impact attack better, the door and frame will also deform elastically, absorbing some of the impact so will be harder to knock in but it will be far more vulnerable to levering/jemmying attacks just because it is plastic

In contrast, a wooden door will rarely be installed 'properly', it wont be multipoint locked, the frame wont be reinforced to resist splintering on impact and the door wont be reinforced around the (cheap) locks, also if it's a pretty panelled door then it wont stand a chance.

In extremis though I reckon I can make a wooden door and frame more secure than a plastic one but few pay what it would cost to do it.

Reply to
fred

That is because uPVC doors are much tougher than wooden ones when they are installed correctly.

They also flex and absorb the shock without breaking like wood does.

Reply to
dennis

Anything you can add to a wooden door can be added to a plastic one.

Reply to
dennis

Drug dealers would :-)

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

In article , dennis@home writes

It would be difficult to imagine the add-ons that would make a uPVC door installation as secure as a wooden block blank door (or 60min exterior fire door) with twin BS approved deadlocks, suitable hinging and steel reinforcement for locks, hinges and frame.

A steel framed uPVC door and frame is a start but the flawed locking system and the vulnerable panels make it weak once its design limits are passed.

Reply to
fred

You must have a very long memory - to the days when people lived in caves. I'll bet the first break in occurred shortly after the door was invented...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

You don't fit steel cored panels as well as steel cored frames? Mine has multipoint locks and a dead lock BTW.

I suspect the brickwork is the weak point as it will be on a good wooden door. When I was working for Chubb a few decades back we had to reinforce the brickwork on some jobs. These days with battery powered angle grinders it probably isn't worth doing that. I bet there is a good chance I could take the whole frame out on 99% of doors in a couple of minutes whatever locks are fitted.

Reply to
dennis

In article , dennis@home writes

No, as I would never fit a plastic door.

Do you think it is as secure as the installation I described above?

I'd be happy with 5 minute protection with a monitored alarm sounding,

120dB in your ear while bashing away can be quite a distraction I (don't) hear.
Reply to
fred

Do you think what you described is secure? How many minutes do you think it is secure for?

But alarms are so easy to disable. I used to fit them BTW. They also cause so many false alarms that most are ignored. I bet that your monitoring company doesn't respond very quick if it has 20 false alarms in the few days leading up to a break in and its easy to make a false alarm happen, especially on a monitored one if they use the phone lines.

BTW, have you attached your alarm in such a way that it will go off if someone removes the frame or is the sensor attached to the frame? I ask because nobody ever does!

Reply to
dennis

In article , dennis@home writes

I am glad you are happy with your installation, I am also happy with mine.

Reply to
fred

My basement door is 2" timber with 1/8" steel sheet cladding, with

1/8" pretty timber lamina on top. It still has the remains of somebody's kneecap embedded in it.

-- JGH

Reply to
jgharston

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