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Load bearing Stud wall

Hi... I am currently converting an upstairs toilet into a bathroom. I need to take about a foot from a bedroom next to it. I don't think the wall (breeze block) which is currently there is load bearing. But I was goint to erect a load bearing stud wall before taking it down anyway, to take any load there may be on it. Everyone I've spoke to says this will be OK? I have been searching for guidelines/help online, but have not come across anything.... Can anyone advise, or have any links? Thank You dw

Reply to
dw
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You don't think it's load bearing? This is really one to be sure about.

Is this a job Building Control should really know about?

Reply to
dom

And what will the load bearing stud partition bear down upon beneath it?

Reply to
dom

I have a couple of extremely load bearing stud walls. Instead of 4x2 covered in plasterboard, the builders used 6x3 and nailed marine ply -

19mm IIRC - to one side. And THEN covered it with plasterboard.

I should say that it makes the perfect bathroom wall ...easy to fix stuff to, and plenty of depth for pipes.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

How have you got this past building control?

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

That's a trick question, isn't it? :-)

Reply to
Rob Morley

The wall thats there at the moment is breeze block, and sits directly on the floor boards, where it 'stops'. So the stud wall would be the same. I've been told by several people (surveyor and builder inc.) that it's not a load bearing wall currently, but I want to build the stud wall along the lines that you would a load bearing one.

When you say 'building control' do you mean the building regs people from te council?

Reply to
dw

No. The trick question is how they came to built the wall on top of floorboards.

I think he's going to be in the shit house when he does this job.

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

Yes - the people you submit your building notice to when you do work tha requires their approval.

This block wall on top of joists seems very odd, can you explain how that came to be?

Reply to
dom

Well the wall is in a toilet, so I guess the shit house is appropraite!

The house is ex local authority, all the houses have this wall in them, though most I've seen the wall has been moved. I'm not actually sure the wall was there when the house was built, think it may have been put in afterwards, when they decided that everyone should have an inside toilet! I'll check with nieghbours to see what they did. But the intention is that a new wall will be inplace BEFORE the old one comes down, just to be sure, a surveyour has had a look and says that would be ok. It's not as big a job as is seems, but just wanted some pointers to 'load bearing stud walls, even though there is nothing above or below the old or new wall!!!

Reply to
dw

Don't tell him, Pike!

Reply to
Chris Bacon

Obviously depends on the load the wall will be carrying. Typically used to be 4" * 2" with double header and sole plate. Would guess at

400 or maybe 450 centres with horizontal strutting at 900 intervals max. Timber frame houses would use this a lot but dunno where you would get the tech details from. Legin
Reply to
legin

Why would anyone build a heavy-weight brieze (sp?) block wall on top of a wooden wall? More importantly, what does this solid wall support?

Enough people have rung alarm bells over your plans to cause you to pause and get expert advice on whether your forthcoming actions are safe. If you pay an expert and he/she gives you written confirmation that your actions will be safe then you can sue them if the house falls down. That presumes you will still be alive to sue them, and still will have all your family members alive and in working order. Hoping that you can forgive my pessimism, but there are some jobs that you just have to pay for greater experience with. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for DIY, its just that you must always ensure your enthusiasm doesn't eclipse your competence. Building regulations can seem like a ball and chain, but I can see that they are there to pass on bitter experience so that the next person doesn't come to as much harm as the previous person.

Let us know how you get on. Can I finally request that you tell us which town you live in - it makes tying up the BBC news article easier!

Respectfully,

Mungo

Timber must have been expensive and brieze must've been cheap...

Reply to
Mungo

Dad's Army joke - a perceived enemy demandsPvt Pike to tell him his name, and Cpt Mannering says "Don't tell him, Pike!".

Reply to
Steve Walker

The message from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

I think in the context of the second world war a German U-boat captain could well be described as a definite enemy.

Reply to
Guy King

Almost all council houses around hese parts built just after the war have these walls upstairs, why they didn't just use studding like todays houses I don't know.

To the OP, the wall isn't holding anything up or it would be continuous from downstairs. Load bearing walls are seldom built on floorboards and if you get in the loft with a lamp you will see what's on top of it, my guess is fibreglass and nothing else.

Don't tell BC, just whip the bugger out and put in a normal studded wall, 3 X 2 timbers will suffice.

You could always get a builder in, but you would just be paying someone to put in a studded wall on 3 X 2 timbers, if you can DIY then DI!

Reply to
Phil L

This is not always the case. Load bearing walls *do not* have to have continuous walls beneath them.

Load bearing walls are actually built on floorboards (or more commonly joists) relatively frequently.

This probably is true.

If you wish to avoid problems selling the house in the future it would be wise to consult BC to see if approval is required.

Even if it is load bearing? You designed this based on what knowledge of the OPs house?

To the OP: Chances are the wall you have is not load bearing (especially if BC and a builder have confirmed this) however the heuristics Phil has given here for arriving at this conclusion are not safe.

Reply to
John Rumm

To all intents a load bearing stud wall can look very much like any other stud wall. Timber of choice would be 4x2 on 400mm c/c. It would have a foot and head rail running the full length of the wall. Cladding would be PB, and contents (these days) some form of insulating and noise deadening foam (like cork backed PIR foam).

If it is running perpendicular to the joists, it can sit directly on them or on foorboards on them. If is is parallel to the joists, then the joist would normally be "doubled up" (i.e. a pair of simmilar timbers side by side nailed or bolted together), and the wall sat directly over the joist. It could be on the flooring, but in these cases it would more commonly be directly sat on the joist.

Where a load bearing wall is carried by a floor with no direct support under the wall, the joists need to have been specified to allow not only for the normal floor load, but also the point load introduced by the wall.

Reply to
John Rumm

Not in any of the houses I've worked on, and I live in an ex council house built at the same time as the OP's

I've been in the building game all my life and have never known anyone to inform BC when removing non load bearing walls, YMMV.

Based on the knowledge that a builder and a surveyor have confirmed it's non load bearing, what does he need? - a sworn statement from the pope?

What do you think are used to build all upstairs walls in newbuild properties today? What do you think builders use for studding? - I'll give you a clue, it isn't anything larger than 3 X 2

Reply to
Phil L

As I said, I was agreeing with your assessment of the OPs situation, his wall is highly unlikely to be load bearing. What I was disagreeing with was the assumption that because a wall is either stud, or not built over another wall to ground floor level, that it could not be load bearing.

This may not have been the impression you intended to give, but this is how it sounded.

It more usually depends on if the change results in a change of use of a room, the number of rooms, the viability of fire escape routes etc.

My comment was addressed to the situation of it it were load bearing.

For load bearing stud wall in wood, a minimum of 4x2" typically. However it would depend on the load in question.

For a simple dividing wall certainly - or even less.

Reply to
John Rumm

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