Can't find the thread as my server deletes too soon but last month somebody was asking when LED lighting will out-do halogen and CFL.
A new press release from
Thankyou, that was me. I had a look at the link and they do seem to be hedging their bets still :)
Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs / ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc |____|
You have too. Say anything too optimistic and you get sued by investors if you don't deliver. But I've seen the product and it is impressive.
Got a way to go before it becomes economical though.
38W tube (installed) costs maybe 20 quid. LED of the same power maybe 180.And those LEDs that cree are advertising produce very poor white light for general use.
Yes. To me, continuous spectrum light is needed for a pleasant environment. The cost of running such lighting isn't really significant in most households. Security, etc, lighting is rather different.
Aim is not quite that much but I think in the original thread there was a problem with using halogens which LEDS overcome
12v halogens aren't true white either. In the end one needs to look at all the products and choose the one you like best. But this product is attracting serious attention in stage lighting as well as automotive headlights.
But they are continuous spectrum.
Specialist applications aren't quite the same as domestic.
Well, not being impressed with the 30 quid 5 LED Cateye cycle light I ordered, I've just finished my prototype fluorescent front light to replace the 12 volt 21 watt incandescent I was using .
Made by carefully removing the ballast from a 9 watt mini-spiral, driving it with the invertor from a camping light and fitting it in a conveniently-sized "tupperware".
It remains to be seen whether it stands up to my twice-daily assault on Bristol's traffic in all weathers ...
Jeremy
A uk.d-i-y primer on LED lighting.
First there is no realistic chance of LED lighting becoming widespread practical domestic lighting in 2 years. LEDs have too many and too large issues.
They are excessive cost, low light quality, rapid deterioration of output, and the fact that there are much better technologies around.
LEd lighting is a hype business. Other technologies show far more promise, and have done all along.
Full spectrum lightig is another widely misunderstood subject. 3 discrete spectral lines can produce CRI of over 90%. People can not normally tell the difference between 91% and 100%. Triphosphor lights are widely sold as full spectrum, although theyre nothing of the sort.
Due to the nature of the human eye, full continuous spectrum lighting is not needed.
Many non full spectrum tubes do look inferior, hence many have formed the mistaken belief that full spectrum is needed for good eye appeal. However in a lot of cases the lamps they were comparing were not as described anyway, with discrete spectrum triphosphor lamps being routinely sold as full spectrum.
12v halogens are the truest white of all domestic light sources, with CRI of apx 100%, colour temp of 3000K and a full continuous spectrum. As far as whiteness goes, theyre as good as it gets.
Serious hype, not serious attention. LEd lighting will not be taken up any day soon by lighting professionals. This press release is aimed directly at those without lighting expertise.
I've cross posted this to sci.engr.lighting so any errors or debatables can be picked up by the real experts.
NT
but not to a stage lighting forum. There is REAL interest, and many products already in the market place. Chromabank is just the first to spring to mind
Yes - I've seem them used for cyclorama lighting where the ability to give near any perceived colour (on TV) is very useful - as is their small size and lower heat, a safety factor when used near cloth etc.
However, that's a specialist application where costs are pretty irrelevant, and a long way from general purpose - or even mood - domestic lighting.
Hmm. Yes, they are being used quite a lot in big-budget stage lighting applications (because most theatres still can't afford them). IMHO this is mostly because they are the newsest and trendyest thing, so every show wants to be seen to be using them. It's rare to find them in use out of sight!
The colour-mixing LED battens that are seen on TOTP, etc., are really only an update of 1930s (?) technique. In those days we had battens of
150W tungsten lamps on three or four circuits, in which you put different colours. Frequently those colours were RGBW, to allow for colour mixing.Then the same was done with linear halogen floods. This was much brighter and, with an asymmetric reflector, more useful for lighting cloths.
Then the same was done with MR-16s ("zip strips"). This was a dramatic improvement because the individual cells (each lamp) were so much smaller, and so more closely spaced. This made it much easier to get a smooth wash at a short throw distance.
The same thing is now being done with LEDs. They are an even smaller source, meaning that (a) You can get a smooth wash in any colour from really close. I've seen them used in conference lighting by laying a strip of them along the bottom of the backdrop, touching the flats. (b) The sources are small enough that from a distance, the eye doesn't see the individual colours. Same effect as an LED video screen, and useful if you're shining them toward the audience, as they simply see a colour-changing light rather than lots of little RG&B sources being mixed.
Both of these are valid reasons for using LEDs. But IMHO, there are only a very few applications where this justifies their cost.
The entertainment application where I think LEDs will be very useful is one that receives less attention, and that is as a replacement for fibre optics in starcloths and other effects. The point of light is nearly as small, and there is no external box with a noisy fan and a hot lamp to worry about. An LED starcloth was on show last September at PLASA, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more of them.
I think the contracts already placed indicate otherwise. This product is being taken VERY seriously in stage lighting, but how long this takes to transfer to the home remains to be seen.
Can mix any colour you like as long as you can get round some patent issues...
There is at least one 7 colour LED based colour mixing unit and a couple that have added Amber to the RGB mix.
Adam
Competition is good, Lumileds are no longer the only high power LED maker.
White phopshor LEDs are getting better, look at the warm white LEDs now around and see above comment about additive mixing of colour LEDs.
output,
Not as bad as it was, Lumileds claim 50K Hour lumen maintenace for their 1W Luxeon LED.
Which are?
promise, and have done all along.
Wouldn`t disagree that their is some damaging , to long term acceptance of LEDs, hype around, but please what are these other techologies showing more promise, EL, mebbe not, Metal Halide mebbe gots some more mileage in it, fluorescent still a good performer room for improvement , probably,.
Cree X Lamp is currently brightest on block, Lumileds followed with a press release saying their new LEDs would be out in the summer, didn`t say which summer. Nichia have their high power Jupiter out , Korean/Chinese UFO high power LED has been out a while now, heck even humble 5mm LED has got brighter
Adam
Funny, in the work I do LEDs are replacing incandescent at one heck of a pace because the problems you mention are non-existent (indeed colour stability with LEDs is better) and service life is much greater.
I'm curious - as a sound engineer - in that I've not seen them replacing keys or fills yet, but merely as dressing lights. On location, spots still tend to be HMIs (HID) and soft Kinoflows etc which are basically fluorescents. But perhaps I only work on low budget stuff. ;-) In studios, where size, heat and power consumption ain't an issue, halogen still rules. Apart from dressing lights.
Agreed - I think the worst case LEDs are 50k hours - about 5 to 50 times the life of an incandescent or CFL.
In message , snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk writes
LED lighting used EXTENSIVELY in the television industry for effects and prop detail illumination.
google dinnae quote properley, and darn uni-berlin going pay to play..
Afraid worst case is a sight worse than that
Not all LEDs are same, and white is the worst case, but its the hype that ain`t helping.Bit of a reality check at LRC:
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