Learning from Mistakes

[Edward W. Thompson]

I put together a rather large rack (stand alone shelves) to hold my cd/dvd collection. I built the unit from pine which I wanted to stain to match my other lounge furniture. As the pine was somewhat 'knotty' I was unsure whether I should treat the knots with 'knotting'. My gut feeling was it was unnecessary as the varnish/polyurethane would be sufficient to seal the knots and the knotting would show through.

I asked the question in this forum and the feed back was it might be prudent to use knotting. Like a fool I followed the advice and am now left with a 'disaster'. My suspicions were right. The knotting shows through like white patches as the stain simply did not adhere to the knotting or penetrate the wood. Surprise surprise!

I tried to remove the knotting by sanding and meths but it seems I would have to much to get back to bare wood and although it may be possible for the shelves it would be impossible for the carcase.

I guess my only option is to paint a bitter disappointment.

I suppose the moral of this sorry tale is all advice is not good advice. I hoped the advice I was given was from someone who had previous experience but it appears not to be the case.

I know I should have tested before committing, at least I know now.

[Rod]

But I think you got a mixture of do and don't responses. I suspect that the DO responses skipped past the 'stain' issue - white shellac under clear varnish might have been OK.

People use different terms for different things. I regularly see 'stain' used for coloured varnish (which might or might not be OK for you). Spirit or water stain (i.e. not in a varnish) would indeed not colour wood which already has shellac on it. If that is the case, multiple coats of coloured varnish just might help retrieve the situation.

I shall simply point out that my suggestion was to use pine without knots and thus avoid the issue.

Better luck next time.

[Lobster]

[...]

First - look > Before - and make sure it's transparent knotting fluid, as it often > isn't, and would otherwise show through the varnish and looks horrible > (as it does on my bannisters, courtesy of the previous owner.

You've obviously ended up with exactly the same problem as is evident on parts of my bannisters. Sorry to hear it, but don't blame me.

Also, in your last post you said you yourself were worried that stain might not take over the knotting, which sounds like what's happened. Nobody reassured you to the contrary - wouldn't the sensible thing have been to have at least tried out a test area first if you were concerned?

Furthermore I stand by my original observation that I have certainly seen varnished timber spoiled by bleeding knots, and would still definitely use (suitable) knotting fluid myself.

David

[meow2222]

bugger :( Wonder if some careful use of tinted varnish could hide the problem.

IMHO pine's better not stained. It mellows in its own time, and stained pine ends up looking rather flat compared to unstained, when darkening does occur.

NT

[John Rumm]

A coloured quick drying varnish will probably fix it - you may need an extra coat on the pale bits and a bit of time spent feathering the edges.

[Edward W. Thompson]

I have tried 'tinted' varnish but no joy unfortunately. I am now moving towards 'graining'. I have read (google) several glowing reports of the effect and apparent ease of using paint graing. If anyone has used this (Ronseal do kits) I would certainly appreciate comments and any pitfalls. So far I have seen nothing but good results.

[Edward W. Thompson]

Firstly I am not complaining, rather I am blaming myself for not being a little more prudent. From my experience using knotting before staing is definately a no no. I think using knotting after staining should be OK. The problem is the stain simply does not penetrate the wood where knotting has been applied as obviously (now) that is precisely what the intent of knotting is. Although the knotting is invisible when applied even when overcoated with tinted varnish it still shows through very clearly and as far as I can see there is absolutely no way frequently coats would conceal the marks.

With respect to your choice of using knotting in the same circumstances as myself, I think if you did you would achieve exactly the same results as me and those results are unacceptable.

[George]

Yes you should have.

It pays to do a trial on scrap pieces of wood when staining or varnishing,saves a lot of heartache and grief.

[The Natural Philosopher]

IMHO pine is best not used at all, and, if you must, paint it. The amount of time you spend trying to get a decent finish maks it almost always cheaper overall to use a real hardwood to start with.

[Pete C]

I'd use a rectangular cabinet scraper for this, read up on sharpening and experiment on scrap though.

For interior pine I usually finish with cabinet scraper and 1 thin coat of Sikkens Cetol HLS teak.

cheers, Pete.

[Stuart Noble]

The OP's mistake, given that he decided to use knotting at all, was not staining first