land boundary question and drain pipes!

[Norman]

Hi,

Is there a rule about where one person's property ends and their neighbour's property begins?

On my street the houses are built like this: detached house with garage attached on the side, then a small path (3'6" ish) that runs down the side of the garage to give access to the back garden, then the next house, and the pattern repeats itself. If you stand along the path you have the wall of the garage to one side of you and the wall of the next house to the other side of you.

Would it be fair to say that the path is exclusively mine and my neighbour's property begins with the wall of his house?

Can it be this simple because if we consider the walls of the house to mark the boundary, what about the eaves which extend over the wall: are these technically in someone else's property? What about a drain pipe clipped to my wall: is that on my neighbour's land?

The reason I ask this is that my neighbour has had his drive paved. They have paved right up to our wall. We had a drain at the end of the wall, which until recently the drain pipe from the gutter emptied into.

The contractors have paved over the drain. The contractors said they were told the drain is not used. We would like to keep the drain in case we want to use it again in the future. They claimed it was our neighbour's land and he could pave over it if he liked.

I wanted to get my facts straight before saying or doing anything else. Thanks in advance.

[Jonathan]

Look at the land registry, you can get both your neighbour's and your entries for a small fee.

Jonathan

[The Natural Philosopher]

generally title deeds show boundaries.

[Roger Mills]

Is the path between the houses exclusively yours, or are alternate houses mirror-imaged, with a shared path between each pair?

Is there is a fence between the back gardens? If so, if you project the line of that forwards, whereabouts on the drive does it come?

As others have said, the title deeds should show the boundary line. However, in my experience these are not always very explicit, so the other points which I have raised may provide additional clues.

[Big Les Wade]

Norman posted

Almost certainly yes, but the land registry's filed plan should show conclusively.

They would be on your neighbour's land, but regarded as "easements" i.e. you have an acknowledged right to put them there. Although this right is rarely recorded in writing anywhere.

Trespass.

The contractors wouldn't have a clue, they're just doing what your neighbour tells them.

[R. Mark Clayton]

Even if it is on your neighbour's land there would be a wayleave for the drain and an easement for the gully.

[RobertL]

It might also show who has the right to walk along the path even if it does belong to just one of you.

You might even discover that neither of you owns it and that there is no re cord of who does. That is the case with my previous house (built 1961) and my current one (built 1900).

land registry online is here:

It costs £5 IIRC.

Robert

[AlanG]

Check your house deeds. If you have a mortgage see the financier because they will know exactly where the boundaries of your land stop. If someone has nicked a bit they may get involved. Or see your local council for a map of all the property showing boundaries.

[Chris J Dixon]

I have to say that the plan stored for my property is of such a scale, and the boundary line so thick, that it is just as well there are no issues - it would be very hard to be dogmatic about its exact route.

Chris

[Terry Fields]

*Wealth Warning*: Boundary disputes (which is what this could easily escalate to) can be a) very time consuming, b) cost a fortune (as in *fortune*), and c) get an unfavourable result. Even mentioning this problem to your neighbour might mean it needs to be recorded as a 'dispute' when either of you comes to sell.

You need to check the deeds for your property. Ours is like yours, with the flank wall of our neighbour's garage forming the edge of one of our side passages. His eaves overhang our land, but this is specifically mentioned in the deeds, along with other things like we can't open a pub on the premises, or have boundary hedges to the front. The boundary diagram is really only to show which fences you're responsible for - they aren't definitive.

Check your deeds for mention of eaves, gutters, drainpipes, etc; it should mention something like this.

If you find you have a 'wayleave' (or whatever it is called) then you may have suffered 'damage' (i.e. a cost to you to put it right) which you could sue your neighbour for. This is not a good situation for either of you. You might decide in the end to ignore the situation - unfair, I know, but considering the downsides this could be your best course of action.

I suggest you ask your question in uk.legal.moderated, an excellent group for getting views of this sort of situation.

[AlanG]

getting views of this sort of

I suggest you check your boundaries on title deeds or at the local town hall or with the land registry. If you find he has enroached on your land then see the solicitor who did the conveyancing

[Hugo Nebula]

Contractors will do the easiest thing possible. If that involves paving over manhole covers, gulleys, cats, they will do.

IANAL, and in my job, I run a mile from neighbour disputes (which are often longer lasting and more acrimonious than that between North & South Korea), but I would suggest that any services to your property should be maintained irrespective of which side of a boundary it is. However, 'rights' and law often run counter to good neighbour relationships.

Raise it with your neighbour. Be nice, but make it clear that _their_ contractors have covered over _your_ drain.

[Yellow]

either of you comes to sell.

That's rubbish.

[Cynic]

I have no idea whether it is relevant, and IANAL, but IIUC all property owners have a duty to maintain any operating drainage system that in on or under their property even if it is a drain that is not used at all by the property owner himself.

IOW you are not permitted to deliberately block a drain that is used by other properties even if that drain *is* on your property.

[Andrew Gabriel]

If it's registered with the Land Registry, the boundary held by the Land Registry is definitive, and the deeds no longer count. (If the boundary has been recorded incorrectly in the Land Registry, it cannot be corrected as it's now definitive, but you can claim compensation from the Land Registry for the land you lost if it was their fault, and you might find the deeds can help prove the mistake.) The Land Registry might not record any additional terms in attached covenants though, so you still need to keep those safe.

[<me9]

My deeds (and for one other house on the estate, mentioned in my deeds) allow for the neighbours roof and foundations to be on (or over) my land and for access to them to be permitted at reasonable times for maintenance and any damage in doing so must be made good. The deeds of both properties should define who owns what, and who has any easment over the other's land.

Also, drains/sewers serving a property which pass through other property are now owned by the water company who has responsibility for them. Any alterations must be approved by them and be to the required standards. This may subsume what is stated in the deeds.

[<me9]

The boundary on my title deeds is completely different to what the local authority show on their website. They have the OS map where the boundary was guessed by the OS surveyor.

[polygonum]

OS can't count either.

I used to own and live in a terraced house where the OS had mis-numbered them by one from about halfway along.

[The Natural Philosopher]

that was the one where they dropped a bomb and the two neighbours filled in the hole and moved their fences overnight and no one ever noticed.

Dramatised as the film 'whatever happened to number seventeen' - a cult classic.

:-)

[polygonum]

The previous terrace I lived in almost could have been like that. Four houses were over a yard wider than the other sixteen. About enough for a narrow one... :-)