Kitchen under-cabinet lights

[mkkbb]

I'm rewiring my kitchen, and would like to put in under-cabinets lights to light up the worktop (the cabinets being wall cabinets).

1) How do I actually get the power to these lights? Do I have the grey wire coming out of the wall, or is there a special socket I should use?

2) I assume I'll need transformers, how are these connected to the mains, socket or some other way? I want to use a normal light switch to control these under-lights by the way.

3) Can these be powered off the light circuit?

4) I've never built a kitchen before, is there normally a gap behind the wall cupboards to run wire down?

Any responses appreciated (obviuosly ones that help ;) )

[tinnews]

Mine are wired to a lighting circuit, no plugs/sockets involved, though you could run them from a socket if you wanted to.

If you use the usual slimline fluorescent fittings they are mains powered, no transformers.

Yes, as I said that's what I have done.

Yes. I managed to take all my wiring for the under cupboard lights up behind the cupboards and then into the celing void. I took up the floor above in places to connect them to the lighting circuits and to enable the under cupboard lights to be operated from the 'switch by the door'.

[Christian McArdle]

Just have the cable come out of the wall. No need for a socket.

Use these lights.

don't require transformers, as they are mains powered. They provide a very satisfactory light for cooking. They provide a much better spread of light at approximately 5-10 times the efficiency of inappropriate halogen downlighters, leading to a corresponding decrease in carbon dioxide emissions. They are also a fraction of the capital cost, given that each one would replace 2 or 3 halogens. They are also much lower profile, so ideal for under cabinet fixing.

That is preferable, although you can use a ring circuit if you use a 3A FCU in line.

Yes, unless you buy Ikea cabinets. You will need to notch out the back pieces for horizontal runs if you don't run them at skirting level. Notching out is no hassle with a jigsaw, though.

Christian.

[Rob Horton]

(1)I Haven't been able to find a special socket. In my kitchen I had the lighting cable run down from the ceiling in the wall and exit the wall behind a wall cabinet (see (4)). The cable was "protected" by plastic capping and the exit hole was at an angle so that the cable didn't have any nasty bends.

(2) It depends on whether you have low voltage lights or mains lights. Mine are mains. They are a spur from the ring via a switched fused double pole connection unit with a 5 amp fuse fitted. Below is an example.

(3) Presumably. It all depends what is most convenient.

(4) As far as I know, most units have all least a finger width gap between the back panel and the wall. Go to a local DIY shed and have a good look at their demo kitchens. Take a digital camera and take lots of pictures. Very handy as a point of reference.

be wary of Part P and check what you want to do with an electrician friend

[Christian McArdle]

If you want to use a socket, the de facto standard is to use BS546 round pin sockets, either 2A or 5A. You should ensure they have shuttered holes to comply with the wiring regulations.

Christian.

[mkkbb]

If I used the mains lights how do these connect to the wiring that is sticking out of the wall? Do you use a junction box (that wouldn't fit behind the cabinet would it?).

[Andrew Gabriel]

I use Klik plugs and sockets for fixed lighting like this. You can get them from any wholesaler. Flush mount the sockets on the wall, positioned immediately below the cupboard bottoms (and just above tops for over cupboard lighting).

I use 2A BS546 round pin for outlets for portable lighting.

[Richard]

Quite agree, with but one caveat: make certain that the supplier stocks replacement tubes and intends to do so for the forseable future.

John Lewis supplied and fitted low profile fluorescent units like these when installing my kitchen in April 2005. The longer units (20W IIRC) have all failed in less than a year. Either the fitting died or just the tube. Two have melted the diffusers. I dragged the fitting to all my local (serious) electrical suppliers none of whom could match the tube length. CEF told me that each manufacturer makes their own tubes - hence no standard sizes. You can decide if that was simply to persuade me to buy their units, but as I said above, I have not been able to find replacement tubes. I ended up buying the TLC units from A1 Electrical in Tunbridge Wells (who are far more helpful than CEF!)

I should add that we have not done anything about ceiling lighting in the kitchen because these fluorescent units give such good lighting (maybe that accounts for their short life?)

HTH

Richard

[mkkbb]

So to clarify, I can have just the grey T&E cable sticking out of the wall (above the cupboard). Then run the light/transformer cable behind the wall cabinet.

How do you connect the T&E to the transformer? Most don't have plugs on, so they have to be connected somehow.

Sorry for my ignorance.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Indeed, this seems to be a "feature" of T4 tubes.

[mkkbb]

With the halogen lights that require a transformer, could I put a 3 pin plug on the end of the cable to plug into a socket off the lighting circuit? That way I'm covered if I ever need to use the fluoresant lights instead.

[Andy Hall]

Can you suggest one, Andrew? I looked at TLC and they only seem to have Klik ceiling roses.

Did you mean these?

seem quite large. Is there a backing box/plasterboard box suitable for flush mounting included with them, or how does that work?

[Andrew Gabriel]

Go to your local electrical wholesaler -- they will stock them. You want a a Klik S26 architrave socket and architrave back box, and a P22 plug. The ceiling rose you saw is the same connector, but in a different mounting format.

you want the architrave one.

The S26 socket is standard architrave format and fits in an architrave back box (half the size of a single gang light switch). MK make these and there are no-name ones too, but I've only seen them in metal plaster flush mount and surface mount formats, not plasterboard box. For plasterboard, I stick a metal one in the plaster with bonding coat. If you are dry lining, you could probably screw it to the wall behind, with an appropriate spacer if necessary.

[Andy Hall]

Ah yes. Found the brochure, thanks

[Christian McArdle]

I should say that I've had no trouble with tube life with the TLC units. I have 5 of these units in my kitchen and after two years, not a single one has failed or deteriorated to a noticeable extent.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

I used a small 5A junction box. You could also crimp the connection and heatshrink cover it. The junction box is easily concealed by the pelmet.

Christian.

[Richard]

Good!

Fingers crossed!

Richard

[chris French]

Yep, I experimented, these are much better than LV halogens for under cupboard lighting

Yep.

As it happens most of the lighting cabling in our old kitchen was under the floor, rather than above in the ceiling void. I had ours two way switched from under the cupboard and by the door as well. I the cables up inside a bit of boxing in next to the units and then under the cupboards to the lights. But I could equally have run it down from the ceiling void.

[John Rumm]

I would strongly advice against using halogen lights for under cupboard lighting since they have a narrow beam and project lots of heat forward, which could make woring near them rather unpleasant.

If you arrange for a T&E cable to exit the wall at the level of the base of the cupboard (but above the pelmet level) you can then take it either directly to the fluro fitting, or to a surface mounted tansformer if you must have halogens. The power can come from a lighting circuit or from a power circuit via a fused connection unit (3A fuse).

Most low profile fluro lighting designed for this purpose is "link lighting" - i.e. you supply power to the first one, and then use the (usually supplied) link cables to daisy chain each of the remaining ones.

[mkkbb]

Thanks John, i've decided to go for fluorescent lighting, and maybe add two downlights at a later date above my sink, as the board that runs across from the two cupbards either side is high up.