Kitchen sockets: stylish new design

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Also, I like to set sockets exactly equidistant between tiles on both planes. Would mean cutting the couplers accurately - or using threaded conduit with backing nuts, which is my preferred way.

If using tiles larger than the sockets, and cutting out the channel reasonably accurately, you might get away without making good afterwards - simply bridge the channel with the tiles. Using this method you can part tile - say the bottom row - before installing the boxes, for that perfect 'catalogue' look...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Use a masonry drill the same size as the hole, then a suitable plug and screw. It won't have to do much. And isn't really needed if you've used a decent mortar mix.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Only snag is bonding only comes in large bags - so you'll have to dispose of the majority as it won't keep.

Quick set cement comes in small bags and will keep for a while if kept dry.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Whilst it might become unusable for scratch coat (although I've still used it a year past the date without problems), it will be fine for this purpose for ages. Actually older plaster will be better because it will set more quickly, which is normally what you want for small patching quantities. Keep it in a dry and preferably warm place though, with the bag resealed as well as possible.

[IMM]

Thank you.

[Lurch]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:28:16 -0000, "Bert Coules" strung together this:

I'll say it again, leave the cement to set then drill, plug and screw through the box. Drill a hole, with a drill and masonry drill bit, through the box, and into the masonry. Put a plug in this hole and put a screw into the middle af the plug. Turn the screw clockwise with a suitably sized screwdriver until tight.

[Bert Coules]

Lurch,

Thank you for your reply, if not for your sarcasm.

I concede that this will work if (a) the head of the screw is larger than the outside diameter of the plug, or (b) a washer is used. But since neither of these conditions was mentioned by either of us, it seems to me that my question was perfectly valid and your tone quite unnecessary. I thought this group existed for mutual support and advice, not rudeness.

Bert

[usenet]

... by doing as I do (and explained in a long thread about wall fixings recently), use smaller wall plugs than most people seem in the habit of using.

You don't need a *very* strong fixing for a socket back box anyway.

I just drill a 4 (or maybe 4.5) mm hole through the hole in the back box and put a yellow plug in it. Then use a 4 x 30 or 4 x 40 TurboGold screw.

[usenet]

If the head of the screw *isn't* larger than the O/D of the plug then, to my mind, the plug is *way* too large for the screw. As I keep repeating I use 3.5 and 4mm screws in yellow plugs which go in 4mm diameter holes in the wall. Why use anything larger?

[Bert Coules]

Chris,

Thank you for the courteous replies.

In the case of socket boxes I'd say that the thinking behind wanting to use a larger plug is psychological: the fixing has to hold against what seems to be a considerable force frequently exerted against it, when plugs are removed from sockets. What's more, that force is in the exact direction which could pull the plug from the wall - not like, say, a wall unit or a picture, where the force is at ninety degrees.

Given all that, those 4mm yellow plugs just seem somewhat flimsy.

Bert

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You'll need a number 6 drill, plug and screw.

But if the drill size is the same as the hole, the appropriate screw will always have a larger head. Indeed, you'll be hard pushed to find any woodscrew easily where the head is smaller than the hole in a backing box.

Don't worry about it. It's the way things are. Put on your thick skin before reading.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Considerable force? *Any* wall plug and screw correctly fitted is way more than capable of withstanding this.

Also, making good round the box even with Polyfilla type stuff will make it plenty strong enough.

[usenet]

Well you certainly can't pull my yellow plugs out.

What is more important to my mind is how tight the screw is in the plug. As long as the plug is a snug fit in the hole in the wall (I like to have to just tap the plugs in gently with a small hammer or the handle of the screwdriver) and the screw is the right size for the plug then it's going to be tight whether it's a 4mm screw in a yellow plug or a 5mm screw in a red plug. Given that it's tight the difference in grip between a yellow and a red one will be quite small I would have thought.

[Bert Coules]

Thanks to Dave and Chris. I'm now both educated and convinced.

Bert

[Lurch]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:51:36 -0000, "Bert Coules" strung together this:

Apologies, the sarcasm is a family trait I'm afraid, you should meet my Dad, he's even worse! Anyway, to clear up any confusion this is what I always, (95% of the time), do when fixing metal boxes, and I do fit hundreds. Place box on wall, drill through box and into masonry with 5.5mm masonry bit. Insert red plug through box and into masonry and fit no.

8 screw into plug, sometimes giving it a little tap so the top of the plug sits behind the box, and tighten. I haven't come across another sparky yet who doesn't do this so it's a well proven technique!

[Bert Coules]

Lurch,

Thanks for the apology, willingly accepted.

I was thrown because I tend always to think in terms of this sequence: drill the hole, insert the plug, tap home. Thread the screw through whatever it is you're securing, offer up the whatever-it-is and the screw together, insert screw in plug, tighten.

So you see it hadn't occurred to me that it could be done in the way that you described - but now that it *has* occurred to me, I'll certainly try it. So thanks for the tip.

Incidentally, my sample of the ritzy wedge-shaped kitchen socket mounting has just arrived. I'm off to take a look at it...

Bert

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Door etc frame fixings work in this way - you drill through the frame and then the wall at the same time, and hammer a special fixing through them both. It give a more accurate location than doing it separately.

[Bert Coules]

Dave,

I've come across this technique with exactly that sort of special fixing; what I hadn't realised was that it's also done with standard wallplugs. Thanks to everyone who put me right.

Bert

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Many people of course won't have a small enough masonry drill, as this size is probably rather small for general use.

You're very welcome. ;-)

[Lurch]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:49:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" strung together this:

What size? If the hole in the box is smaller than 5.5mm then the masonry bit will make it 5.5mm, or have I misunderstood what you were saying?