Kitchen design

[Chris J Dixon]

Although I am not planning to do my kitchen myself, this seems as good a place as any to ask a few questions, with a view to informing my design inputs, and to help evaluating the offerings.

What has been your best idea and worst mistake in laying out a kitchen? What would you not want to be without, and what is simply a waste of space?

We will be having a dishwasher for the first time. There are only two of us, is a slimline a good idea, or overpriced compared with the more readily available full-size?

Having a dishwasher, what sink & drainer configuration is then most useful?

With a fully integrated dishwasher, is it a problem not being able to see any controls?

There are various clever mechanisms for access to corner cupboards, but they naturally reduce the actual storage space available. How good are they in practice?

Chris

[davey]

Hi Chris,

I am in the finishing stages of completely renovating my kitchen, including removal of a large wall to double the size of the room, inserting 2 new double glazed windows, fully rewiring the whole room, adapting a second-hand fitted kitchen to my new design, re-plastering the ceiling, walls and relaying the floor after re-routing the central heating pipes. I read that you are not doing it yourself, but I found the free download 'kitchen design' software from Ikea very useful. It helped me to avoid a few unforeseen problems before I started. Although the software is designed to plan for Ikea furniture, it is easy to adapt it to suit your own furniture.

One big advantage is the ability to 'walk through' when you have finished. That gives you the chance to see if everything will work!

I installed a 60cm dishwasher - first time in my life I've had one. Wouldn't be without it now! I do the dishes once a week! I also installed a 'stand alone oven' (no knobs for the hotplate) as an 'eye- level' oven on (3-phase), fitted a microwave oven into another cupboard, altered the second-hand kitchen to take my fridge/freezer, installed a new 4 ring gas hob, an extractor fan (with a safety switch so it will ONLY work when the window is open - because I have a wood burner, it prevents the extractor fan from drawing the carbon monoxide back down the chimney/flue into the house!), new worktop with downlighters connected to a wall switch (I can switch the lights on/ off from the door as I enter), etc....

It took me 6 months to get all the heavy work done (removing walls, concrete slabs, floor, inserting windows, etc), but I had never done anything on that scale before, so it was a steep learning curve.

Good luck!

dave

[Andy Hall]

That's a personal thing. However there are some fundamental principles

- e.g. the work triangle concept.

Assuming that there aren't specific space constraints then a standard size is a far better idea because there is so much more to choose from.

If you want to, you can live without a drainer. Having a second sink bowl is far more useful if you have the space to do it. Items can be drained in a second sink if you like.

Not really. Ours has a simple display of the remaining time for the cycle and warning lights for anything amiss. Dishwashers are a press, go and leave machine and the TV is more entertaining. Just.

In our original kitchen, the corner arrangements had a rectangular cupboard and another abutting it to form the L shape. There was a door on the open part with a carousel behind it. The arrangement was completely useless with large amounts of space wasted, especially in the corner behind the carousel. Have a look at Woodfit partt number JT755 for an example. That was ripped out and not replaced, although I did look briefly at the Magic Corner idea e.g. JT905L. These at least don't waste space in one sense - i.e. the corner space isn't wasted, but do in another - there's usually just two shelves and a lot of space is wasted vertically. These systems are quite expensive as well for what they are.

In the new kitchen, I went for L shaped corner units with centre hinged doors. This is a far easier to use arrangement with easy access and all of the space can be used

[The Wanderer]

Light colours, no ledges on any of the doors (collect dust and dirt). Lightly textured worktop - plain gloss surfaces scratch and then you're stuck with it.

Dark work surfaces tend to show water marks, especially if you're in a hard water area.

With just two of you, you might want to consider a two drawer model. More expensive, but you have two smaller dishwashers, rather than a larger one that takes longer to fill. Had Dws for quite a few years, but are very pleased with our new one. (Fisher and Paykel)

Must agree to disagree on that one. We have a 1½ bowl sink, with waste disposal in ½ bowl. Never found the need for a second sink per se.

Ditto.

Ask yourself. If you go into B&Q or MFI to take a look at their stuff, do you ever see one of these 'clever' mechanisms intact and working? I never have. They're always broken and non-functioning, with a heap of bits inside the cupboard.

Again I'll second that. You end up with more usable space and better access with a centre hinged door.

A good buy was a taller larder unit, the sort with adjustable metal trays, keeps all tins, packets and jars in one place, instead of scattered through various cupboards.

[newshound]

Corners: I've had carousels in the past and didn't like them much either. In latest I have two standard L shaped base units and similar above. I made the doors myself (one longer than the other, the longer one doesn't have a handle) and use standard 165 degree hinges on the outside and have been very pleased at the access. You want larger and less frequently used stuff right in the corners.

The other thing which has worked really well in the latest kitchen, I had four "non-standard" width gaps each less than 300 mm. I have a fixed open-fronted box in one for trays and chopping boards; in the other three, tall slim free-standing boxes (with fake door fronts) on casters. One for ordinary waste, one for recycling plastic bottles, the other divided to take glass and tins. (Worth designing them to take standard bin liners, my first effort was too deep). Some people put towels / tea towels in these spaces, you can get pull-out bars but I've never found these so convenient. Not too difficult to "DIY", a proper custom fitter should be able to do it although it may get expensive depending on your door design.

[Andy Hall]

I agree

Although plan to mix packet goods and jars/cans.

If they are loaded entirely with heavy items they can become difficult to open and close.

[mark.hannah]

The thing that I can't do without in my new kitchen is the waste disposal unit. The reason I fitted it was because I was fed up with the plug-hole becoming blocked up with bits of food and not draining water away. Most sinks come with a strainer-like plug - but this just stops the food going down the drain - the thing still blocks up and stops water draining away. No such problems with the waste-disposal and it's sharp teeth sitting under the plug-hole.

Mark.

[Calvin]

Best idea (and one I'd do again every time) was to fit high level cupboards which go all the way to the ceiling. Even if you're short (as I am) the space is still useful storage for infrequently used items and you don't end up with a greasy cupboard top to clean every six months. I can't understand why people fit those which stop short of the ceiling.

Worst mistake was a sink where the drainer has no slope into the sink. It gets gunky really easily. It was a normal enough sink from a proper manufacturer too so not something you'd think of checking.

[Si]

In message , Calvin writes

I was strongly advised by a Magnet saleswoman not to fit cupboards to the ceiling as it would make the kitchen look like a bedroom. (I don't remember my parents kitchen feeling like a bedroom though...)

[Clive George]

The duvet on the worksurface is a giveaway :-)

cheers, clive

[Bob Mannix]

Worst ever mistakes: not leaving enough space beneath worktop for appliance AND tiled floor (had to do without latter) ceiling surface mounted spotlights using MFI to fit a kitchen

If you have the space, go full size, otherwise compact dishwashers very good (Bosch etc)

Up to you- 1+1/2 bowl and drainer normal

No

Are you obsessively tidy and prone to get rid of anything you don't need? If yes then you will use such systems well. If no you will have to stuff the system in the cupboard along with everything else and be able to get less in.

[Jonathan]

How serious is the risk of carbon monoxide being drawn back? I have just had a wood-burner with back boiler fitted in our new kitchen.

Jonathan

[Si]

In message , Clive George writes

doh! :)

[Steve Firth]

Well I would give that advice the value it deserves, none. Magnet sales droids exist to sell Magnet products, so if they don't stock it they will tell you it doesn't exist/looks awful indeed any lie necessary to get you to buy what they want to sell you. You will find if you order from them that they foul up your order over and over again.

If you look at any modern kitchen design there well be a range (or several) that involve complete floor to ceiling storage.

[Huge]

Another good reason for doing it, then.

[Steve Firth]

Underfloor heating.

Not realising that some kitchen units make no provision at all for services to be run behind units. Mostly Italian and Scandiwegian designs which seem to assume that all pipes are buried in the wall.

Hmm, I wouldn't be without a proper extractor hood venting outside, a gas hob, built under fridge, freezer, dishwasher. The washing machine can go where it belongs in a utility room. I also wouldn't be without a traditonal pantry in a separate room, unheated, with flyscreen ventilation.

If it wasn't for the high water table at the present house I would have had a wine cellar as well.

[matthew.larkin]

Best bit about our new kitchen - larder units for just about all cupboards (from Ikea), means you can use all shelves in the cupboard and still get easily to everything at the back.

Corner units - we used the carousel spinners, with doors which fold in half. I agree with others that the space at the back is largely wasted, but a) we now have more storage space than we need (just lucky!) and b) we use that "wasted" space for stuff we almost never use / use only once per year so its not a daily problem.

We also got wire baskets for one cupboard so that we could store fruit and veg at room temperature rather than keep in the fridge.

Matt

[Maris]

What was wrong with the surface mounted spotlights idea?

[Bob Mannix]

They get mucky quite quickly with steam and grease and get hot so it bakes on. When I say surface mounted I meant ones you can twizzle round and adjust (ie not recessed into ceiling). Ones recessed into the ceiling are better - good tip for recessed ones, I positioned some just in from the wall cupboards - they illuminate the worksurface and the cupboard when open.

[Andy Hall]

Basically meaning that they did not have taller cupboards in the range that they had overstocked in the warehouse and for which she was on a bonus to shift by the end of the quarter.