Kettles with concealed elements - are they all so noisy?

[Phil Addison]

SWIMBO bought a shiny new steel kettle, and now we can't listen to the kitchen radio when its on (the kettle that is!!) because it makes such a vigorous 'kettling' racket, and not just when it's near boiling. Last weekend I talked to a guy in our independent appliance retailer and he said they are all like that these days, its due to the trendy new 'concealed element' design.

The concealed element 'feature' is where the element is embedded in the flat bottom of the kettle, rather than being the conventional 'bent rod' style immersed in the water. I think the noise is due to the large flat base acting as a kind of sounding board.

On a quick look it seems as if this style of kettle is all that's available these days. Has anyone else come across this problem? Any recommendations for a good quiet cordless kettle?

Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at

Google uk.d-i-y archive is at NOSPAM from address to email me

[Richard]

I thought it was just our model, Ours is so loud you struggle to hear the tv in the lounge, its like a bloody jet engine, and it wasnt a cheap one either. I think the faster the water is boiled the greater the noise also, ie a 2kw will be noiser than a 1kw

[Owain]

They did that in the 1930s, in fact I have a book showing how to make an electric kettle from an ordinary kettle, some element wire, scrap copper, etc.

£8 from Tesco.

Owain

[Andy Wade]

Yes. Also plastic-bodied ones are much quieter than metal-bodied ones, IME.

[Anna Pinnion]

We used to be in the same boat, got through 3 of these in virtually as many years, at 30 quid a pop not cheap. The reason they are so noisy is the heated baseplate acts as a large radiator for the sound of water instantly expanding to water vapour at various hotspots across the surface. The reason why they have a crap lifetime is the element itself is not fully cooled underneath by the water, and gradually vaporises/sublimes over a period of time until finally the weakest link gives.

We bought an el cheapo 'Cookware' kettle from Argos (£5) with the conventional fully submerged element about 3.5 years ago.

It's still going strong!

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Phil Addison saying something like:

Stop being so pikey and use the living room.

[Ian Stirling]

Personally, I have a Russel Hobbs kettle. Like

white.

I can just about hear the radio, on at a normal volume next door. With the radio on next to it at a normal volume, there is no problem whatsoever. I suspect it's that steel is more noisy, to some extent.

And personally, I love the concealed element feature. I typically have around a cupfull of water in the kettle, which it boils really fast. It will happily boil half a cup.

Not to mention the topic of the moment - energy saving.

If you boil an extra cup of water 4 times a day, you spend 3 pounds a year extra, and spend an extra several hours a year waiting on the kettle.

[Alex]

Well my quite cheap "Breville" one from Sainsbury's isn't very loud, and it has a blue LED in the power switch for added coolness ;)

Alex

[Guy King]

The message from "Anna Pinnion" contains these words:

Mum's got a Russel Hobbs non-jug kettle that must be 20 years old at least, and it's still on the original element. Needs descaling frequently 'cos her water comes from the North Downs chalk.

[Phil L]

Why would anyone purchase something like this? - I mean, what's the point? - if the design hasn't been improved (and it sounds like it most definitely hasn't) why change just for the sake of changing? - are they supposed to be energy saving?

We buy cordless kettles from supermarkets, the last one was p'chased from Asda 3.5 yrs ago and set us back the princely sum of £6, it still works but there's a small leak at the window where the water level is shown, I use it for work, the new one cost a fiver from Morrisons, had a plug on it and everything.

[Ian Stirling]

Less water in them not only means energy saving, it means they boil faster, which is good.

[The Central Authority]

As an aside I'd note that the kitchen radio we bought turned out to be a lost cause because every *thing* and every *activity* in the kitchen drowned it out.

That IIRC was the problem with original Goblin "Teasmades".

About 25 mins before the appointed hour it made a very loud "click", (like a mousetrap) and then made kettling noises for the remaining 25 mins until the tea was ready, so you didn't wake to a fresh cup of tea, you woke to all this infernal racket.

ISTR old fashioned kettles used to go quiet just before starting to boil vigorously. Presumably once the air has been boiled out of the region near the element it goes quiet. It's likely the new order kettles with large surface area heating surfaces just heat the water too uniformly and gradually prolonging the agony.

Doubtless it's due to Air/O2 bubbles forming and collapsing. But AIUI water without dissolved air makes poor tea, (I don't partake myself), so can't suggest anything. :-(

DG

[Guy King]

The message from The Central Authority contains these words:

Not quite. The noise before it comes to the boil is steam bubbles forming and collapsing - the water around the element exceeds the boiling point but the bulk of the water in the kettle doesn't so the bubble collapses immediately. The implosion is quite violent, it's the same idea as an ultrasonic cleaner.

As the bulk of the water nears boiling point it's much closer to the temperature of the steam in the bubbles, so heat transfer across the bubble's surface is a lot slower. The bubbles either collapse more gently, or they fail to collapse at all and break the surface. Either is a lot quieter than the decrepitation of hot bubbles in cool water.

Of course, more heat is lost when the bubbles break the surface, the escaping steam carries away heat very efficiently, and this is why water doesn't exceed its boiling point at a given pressure - the faster you put heat in the faster the steam carries the heat away. Until of course it's all gone. Then you need a new element.

[meow2222]

the only option not yet mentioned is to reduce the kettle power. A series impedance will do that. A diode would roughly halve power use, you'd want a 1kv 12A rated diode for long term reliability.

NT

[meow2222]

the only option not yet mentioned is to reduce the kettle power. A series impedance will do that. A diode would roughly halve power use, you'd want a 1kv 12A rated diode for long term reliability.

The other option is acoustic damping, which is quite doable with double walled kettles. That way you could get all your wants, but would have to mess with it to get it there.

NT

[meow2222]

the only option not yet mentioned is to reduce the kettle power. A series impedance will do that. A diode would roughly halve power use, you'd want a 1kv 12A rated diode for long term reliability.

The other option is acoustic damping, which is quite doable with some kettles. That way you could get all your wants, but would have to mess with it to get it there. First thought for that would be an assortment of large steel nuts sitting on blobs of high temp silicone, anywhere and everywhere they could go without being visible, ie underneath where most needed, plus some more in the handle area, and whatever you can get into the sit-on base.

NT

[MikeH]

I've tried about five diferent makes/models and they all made a hell of a racket. The water boils locally where it contacts the heat source, makes a load of tiny steam bubbles, and this results in the noise. I think the old non-concealed elements made a bit less noise, and they do tend to quieten just before the water starts to properly boil. I've also noticed that swirling the water around as it's being heated results in a quieter boil - maybe because the agitation cuts down the creation of steam bubbles on the element. Maybe a built-in impeller to stir the water would reduce the problem? Anyone fancy making a prototype? I'd be happy to pay a premium for a quiet kettle. :-)

Mike

[Brian Sharrock]

snip

They all seem to leak at the junction between dissimilair materials ! I've lost count of the kettles we've jinked because I get fed up with mopping water from around the base {The 'cordless' connector gubbins seems quite 'safe' with its turret connector}. Finally purchase a metal body, concealed element, jug kettle without any window!

Everything is supposed to have a plug ! The populace can't be trusted to fit a plug! What'd'ye thinks this is? D-I-Y ?

[Dave Liquorice]

The "rapid boil" kettles are 3kW and are noisey but you don't have to wait long for it to boil. B-) The urn wasn't up to temperature on an OB the other day and the standby kettle was in use, I thought the kettle was bust as it was taking so long...

[R.P.McMurphy]

Nice explanation! Must be the same reason why a milk frother is so noisy too!

Steve