Just seen another horror story

[Mike Mitchell]

But you can't compare those ancient timber-framed buildings with the modern cheapo variety! Sure, if it's a Swedish, Canadian, or self-build home, where you can choose a design with really solid beams, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. Without naming names (but I sense the first letter was quite like a W or something similar) those timber-framed houses there was so much fuss about in the 1980s were in my opinion jerry-built rubbish.

As to the point about most modern homes consisting of timber, well, no. Increasingly, it's MDF. I noted in one brochure that the skirting is all MDF. Now this may well be sound enough, but it's not "timber". Also, look at the roof trusses in an older property and compare them with those in a new house. In the latter the timbers used are spindly in comparison. In our village, builders recently completed a couple of very boxy "cottages" which passers-by (me!) were able to observe from week to week. Although the finished properties look "okay", I noted areas during the build which I would have thought looked like a bodge. A wavy foundation trench; uneven foundation beams; poorly fitted fascias, and more. The road has been dug up twice to fix problems with the wiring/plumbing/phones/drainage. Yesterday the BT van was parked outside again. These cottages sold for £265,000 each!

I would LIKE to buy an old property! I would LOVE to buy an old property, but everyone I know or knew who did so had tremendous problems with (a) gazumping (b) vendor withdrawing (c) chains (d) surveys (e) all the other problems. An old house with vacant possession might do the trick, though. But there aren't many of them around.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Not according to the Terms and Agreements blurbs I've been studying! They want a deposit to reserve a property, and then a short time later they want the dosh, period!

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

No. The only reason is to reduce hassledom by removing some of the typical pitfalls associated with buying a property with people already living in it.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

"Old" slate rooves, sure! This was a new build, though. We didn't get to find out how much it cost to fix the problems, as the builder would not be interviewed, then later the programme presenters said that the owners had negotiated a confidential agreement with the builder. However, the estate agent who also appeared on the programme said at one point that the house was unsaleable in its present condition and the owners might be forced to put it up for auction, thus losing roughly half the value.

In any case, this is not the ONLY new property that has "featured" on programmes like that one. I believe it was the BBC which reviewed new builds last year, where there were major cracks in walls in one property, weak crumbly mortar in another, and problems which I cannot recall now in a third.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Ah, now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty! Any others? But to at least try to wave the old flag for British workmanship, what about ones where you could say: "Recommended!"

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

You know, I had thought EXACTLY the same myself! Having lived in Germany for many years and observed the self-builds that go on over there as a matter of course I was always struck by the very high quality of the finished properties. My late sister's property, like most modern German houses, has a basement almost the full size of the ground floor. The house has cast concrete subfloors, copper guttering,

*timber*-framed windows instead of horrid PVC ones, underfloor heating, a huge plot, and so on. The gas boiler looks like something out of Starship Enterprise - freestanding and massive.

If only I knew *how* to go about getting a German pre-fab built over here! Maybe I should start investigating...

Thanks for your tip, Owain!

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Thanks for that! Whereabouts do you do new build work? Just the county(ies) would do. I won't tell 'em you sent me!

MM

[Andrew Gabriel]

...plumbing installed so wrongly that the houses had hot water continuously pouring out of their loft tank overflows.

[Owain]

"Andrew McKay" wrote | "Owain" wrote: | >The level of training, qualification and basic intelligence of most | >labourers on British building sites is abysmal. And on spec developments | >many labourers will be contracted to a labour hire contractor and not even | >working directly for the main contractor. | Part of the problem has been Gordon Browns attack on the building | trade. You can't work on a building site these days without having | some certification or other, which basically forces the workman to pay | tax at the appropriate rate on all earnings.

This may sound rather reactionary, but I blame the totally inadequate investment in vocational training 16+ combined with the fad for all and sundry to go to university for four years getting their BA Sociology With Macrame before working as a Human Resources Manager in a call centre.

In "the good old days" (which I don't remember) those who failed the 11+ were sent to a secondary modern and taught Useful Things before being put into apprenticeships. Now, nobody wants to do anything which sounds like hard work.

Owain

[IMM]

The early 1980s world in action programme killed them off, but they are coming back big time. World in Action took some poorly built house and passed them off as the norm. They omitted the poorly built brick and block houses which suffer from all sorts of ills, like concrete and brick cancer.

The only difference between a brick and block house and timber fame one is that the inner frame, that holds up the house is timber (which creates a void which is filled with insulation) rather than block work. Otherwise the house are the same.

It's a derivative of timber, that is for sure.

The uprights need not be too thick to hold up a house. With a timber framed house the rooms are exact in that if it supposed to 4 x 5 metres it is. They are also square.

Build a new one, with state of the eco features, that looks old. Our Natural snotty uni man did this, or attempted to.

[IMM]

None are good, it is the best of a bad bunch.

[Tony Bryer]

Whilst unfortunately the walls under sometimes aren't. In my BCO days we had more than one case of having to insist on work stopping until the substructure walls had been rebuilt in the right place.

One of the big problems with timber frame is that it is far more liable to problems if the bricklayers (and others) do not do a good job. It may or may not be better now, but then things like accuracy in setting out, not dropping mortar down cavities and proper firestopping were often not there.

[Frisket]

West & North Yorkshire mainly - especially York & Leeds (big bucks areas - for oop north at least)

Richard

[Neil Jones]

AIUI this is the norm for the NHBC 10 yr cover - builder repairs for first 2 years and NHBC thereafter. This is why it's important to get all the faults fixed in the first 2 years - thereafter you're claiming against an insurance policy and we all know what ins cos are like for avoiding a pay-out.

As it happens, if a fault doesn't show up until after the 2 years have expired you should still approach the builder first because it will probably be deemed a latent fault which is, once again, the builder's responsibility again. How likely you are to get actually get it fixed probably depends on whether the builder is still on site...

[Mike Mitchell]

No worries about spelling! I'm grateful for the feedback I'm getting. Another nail in the coffin for new build. The builders should all be

****ing ashamed of themselves.

MM

[impvan]

Clever. It's the width needed for two passing (overtaking?) wheelie bins, without grazing your knuckles on the wire-cut bricks.

[Andrew McKay]

I failed the 11 plus, and duly went to a secondary modern. I came out with 4 O levels.

When I was at primary school one of my classmates was very intelligent, always at the top of the class. He went on to grammar school.

I met him the year after we left. He came out of grammar school with 2 O levels. And yet he was far more intelligent than me in every respect.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our web site at

[Owain]

"Frisket" wrote | "Andrew Gabriel" wrote | > ...plumbing installed so wrongly that the houses had hot water | > continuously pouring out of their loft tank overflows. | LOL, attended a snagging call a few months ago and the proud owner showed me | the new "hot flush" toilet - minor snag, easily put right by the plumber but | brought tears to the eyes at the thought of someone flushing while occupying | the seat ;-)

That would be the new Luxury Combi Toilet Bidet, Sir, exclusive to the Heritage Widdecombe 4-bedroom Detached Executive.

I heard of someone who found the screw-on washing machine connector in their new house had been screwed-on to the wrong pipe. They had plumbing for a Hot and Gas fill washer.

Owain

[Mike Mitchell]

I'm just reading up on new build and found this review (don't read it in front of the children - they may never have seen grownups cry):

am astounded to learn (elsewhere) that the Sale of Goods Act does not apply to houses! Apparently there was some Act of Parliament or something which excluded houses.

I have seen adverse comments about other well-known builders, too.

A sense of despair is creeping in...

Any room on the ferry to Hamburg...?

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

Yet another shocking link for anyone interested:

me if I'm beginning to bore anyone. Health warning: I am the most pedantic, nitpicky person in Britain. Not even that One Foot in the Grave fellah comes close...!)

MM