It's started.... ((or did I miss this here already??)

[blue]

jobs 'pose risk to homes'

Qualified tradespeople can help prevent DIY disaster Homeowners risk injury, heartache and DIY disaster by calling in friends and family to carry out home improvements, a government-backed body has said. TrustMark, which warns about rogue traders, said 58% of homeowners asked non-professionals to do work such as electrical, roofing or plumbing jobs.

First-time buyers were most likely to use friends and family, it said.

Using friends and family might feel like good value for money, but in the long run it might not be, it warned.

"It is all very well asking family members to help out with home improvements... but it is worth bearing in mind that you are unlikely to have a father who is a qualified electrician," Ian Livsey, TrustMark chairman, said.

"Homeowners need to remember that selecting a reputable tradesperson is the best way to get a quality job at a fair price."

David Pope, of Electrix UK, a TrustMark member, added: "Homeowners may feel that by asking friends or family to work on their home they are getting good value for money.

"In the long run, they need to understand that by not using a qualified and accredited tradesperson, they could be risking the quality of work and even the safety of their homes."

TrustMark is supported by the government, consumer groups and the building trade.

unquote

[The Wanderer]

Err, acting as devil's advocate for just a moment, there's no doubt that we do get the occasional poster here who shouldn't try to tackle *any* sort of DIY work. When I see someone asking for advice about the most basic knowledge for tackling a job, it begs the question 'Are they competent to do the work?' IMHO, those people should be advised against tackling DIY projects.

Now *that* is the laughable part of the whole report. It's a gamble. If you finish up with a good craftsman, then you're lucky, but most so-called reputable tradespersons will cut corners if they think they can get away with it. Says he who has just finished properly repairing and repainting fascia boards around the house that were last painted by a 'reputable tradesperson' who slapped wood hardener and *masses* of filler into areas of wet rot on the corners of the fascia.

Much as current regulations can be a PITA, they are making the serious DIYer think about what he or she is doing, and I suggest do a better job because of them.

Are, so it's really a bit of protectionism - but we all knew that anyway, didn't we?

[dom]

It's an asscoaition on an association. To get a trustmark you first have to join one of the trade bodies on the approved list - and from a brief look, the list seems reasonable.

I'm less keen on how they promote it - FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Whilst dangerous diy cretins and ripoff tradesmen undoubtedly exist, IMO the major root of the problem is the unwillingness of the householder to spend sufficient money to get quality.

The householder knows they're getting it bodged up on the cheap, whether it's Uncle Fred or Bodgit Builders. And equally they know if Uncle Fred has a good skill level or is in fact Uncle Fred Bodgit.

[meow2222]

I think the reality is that most bodges are done by professionals, who know they wont have to live with the results of their work.

Just another attempt to take peoples freedoms away for someone's profit. Unfortunately most will believe it, as prat p experience shows.

NT

[Jason]

And in fairness to this list, they usually are. People here spot a someone trying to do a job outside their compentancy pretty quickly, and the advice is always good (i.e. find someone else who can do it).

-- JJ

[Grumps]

Being somewhat not-sleepy last night, I was sitting in bed watching telly and stumbled onto ITV and their 'game' program. The question was 'add up the numbers', and they showed a box with three balloons with the numbers 44, 80, and ninety-six. Anyway, the idea was that you phone in (several times) and have a go to win some money. The young lady that was hosting the show at the time said (something like) "With this £15,000 you won't need to DIY, but can get someone in to do a better job." Never did find the solution to the question though.

[Fred]

It's not unwillingness, it's unableness in a lot of cases.

I work in an area of the NHS (not a doctor but my job deals directly with patients and I have all the responsibility of knowing that if I c*ck up, those patients are going to suffer in some way) and I get paid just over £13/hour.

I don't mind paying anyone a fair days wage for a fair days work but when some plumber wants £50/hour for moving a bit of copper pipe (or any other of a zillion examples I could give) then the sums obviously just don't add up.

Fred.

[jethro_uk]

I saw that once .... it had (something like):

"21" "forty seven" "132" ...

I was suspecting the answer was 153 ....

[Grumps]

But I bet it wasn't. I worked out all of the combinations that I could (44+80+96, 4+4+8+9+6,

4+4+8+9-6, 44+80, 4+4+8, etc), but they all failed to win the prize (I really couldn't sleep!).

[Tony Bryer]

But IME really good builders have more work offered to them than they can handle so they won't be interested in being on a list like this.

You only have to Google on 'Moben' to see what so-called professionals can be capable of.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Perfectly reasonable if the wood is dry and the really punky stuff is cut back with a wire brush first.

That, or replace the bloody lot. Cutting in wood is a pain in the arse, expensive, and always roots at the joint.

[Ian Stirling]

Only if it's been replaced with really unseasoned wood.

(I have seen a sprouting windowsill)

[Owain]

But if you had to rent the part of the hospital (or whatever other facility) in which you work, pay the rates, electricity, and all the overhead costs - including public liability and professional indemnity insurance - you wouldn't be able to resell your service to the patients at £13/hour, and probably not for £50/hour either.

A time-served plumber on employment with a fair-sized plumbing firm round here gets about £12/hour.

If you want to pay £12 an hour for a plumber then employ one. But you must also pay employer's NICs, provide him with a van and tools, pay him for holidays, send him on training and certification courses if you want him to do gas or pressurised systems etc, and guarantee him 40 hours per week work for at least six months. He'll probably want a pension too, and if you employ a female plumber (and you won't be allowed to discriminate) and she claims maternity leave you'll be paying her wages for at least six months and have to keep her job open for her to return to.

That's the difference between being an employee and being self-employed or an employer.

Owain

[tony sayer]

At a local hospital I was told by their now retired works manager that the "accountants" liked it when they could get an outside contractor in to do a job cheaper then what their own internal labour service could.

This looked good in the books and was toted as money saving and seen as a good thing:)..

Except that they still had to employ and keep their own staff around whilst external contractor was there doing the job!

Ever wondered where some of your NHS spending goes?....