It's Not Easy Being Green

[manatbandq]

Will he really only get 60W from that wheel?

MBQ

[manatbandq]

On our metered supply, the waste water removal element of the bill is calculated based on the amount of water we take in. Using such a system would cut water intake but they would then load the calculation and charge for the "extra" waste water. That's assuming they find out.

MBQ

[manatbandq]

Main storage could be anywhere (even under the garden) with a solar/wind/hamster powered pump.

How about a hand pump to give you something to do whilst you get on with the job, so to speak.

Would it be possible to have some kind of syphon with the flush water falling down the soil pipe causing the cistern to be replenished?

Turbine powered by waste shower/bath water or the toilet waste itself but that might have a problem with "solids".

MBQ

[manatbandq]

A lot of new houses are built with downstairs toilets.

MBQ

[Phil]

That's probably optimistic too. To get 60W he'd need to be flowing 20 litres/sec over a 3 metre drop, and converting the potential energy to electricity with 100% efficiency.

Phil.

[Mary Fisher]

A lot of those houses don't have upstairs ... :-)

Mary

[manatbandq]

Smiley noted, but it's a serious point. Mounting the tank between gutter and cistern is easier when it's only a few feet off the ground than when its relative to a 1st floor toilet.

MBQ

[Guy King]

The message from "Phil" contains these words:

Er - that's nearly 600W.

Work done is force[1] x distance[2]. Force of 20 litres is 196N. 3 x 196=588W

[1] In Newtons [2] In meters

[Mary Fisher]

Are you thinking of having it outside the wall? My image was in a loft. Must have sufficient mechanical support though ...

Remember that I didn't see the programme so have no idea how the chap did it. I was busy making tallow candles for Blaenavon Iron Museum. I hate making tallow candles.

Mary

[manatbandq]

That's one of the problems with the programme - they didn't tell us.

The other problem being that it was based on someone who could afford to risk selling up and sinking =A3600K into their "going green" project. Hardly applicable to the man on the clapham omnibus who just wants to do his bit for the environment.

It would have been far more interesting if we were told how the other chap's grey water recycling worked, how much his solar panels cost, how much the kit to export surplus leccy to the grid cost, how much he was paid for said leccy, etc, etc. Instead, we got shallow "infotainment" including shots of boozy students playing football till 2am.

MBQ

[Mary Fisher]

That's one of the problems with the programme - they didn't tell us.

The other problem being that it was based on someone who could afford to risk selling up and sinking £600K into their "going green" project. Hardly applicable to the man on the clapham omnibus who just wants to do his bit for the environment.

There have to be pioneers in every walk of life.

It would have been far more interesting if we were told how the other chap's grey water recycling worked, how much his solar panels cost, how much the kit to export surplus leccy to the grid cost, how much he was paid for said leccy, etc, etc. Instead, we got shallow "infotainment" including shots of boozy students playing football till 2am.

That's telly for you :-)

Mary

[adder1969]

I seem to recall, but could be completely wrong, that the chap in London's house had a steep garden and his water container was at the end of the garden thus being able to easily pipe the water to his cisterns etc.

I saw a bit of anothr programme later on about a guy with a wind turbine in his yard and the "expert" said something along the lines that the environmental cost of making the turbine was way more than the savings will yield.

In the BBC progamme though they make a point of saying that they're not trying to be complete hippies but are trying to do what they can to be self-sufficient. The guy is an engineer and I'm sure much of the impetus is to satisfy the engineering challenge rather than the environmental one.

[Phil]

oops - forgot 'g'

[Mary Fisher]

turbine in his yard and the "expert" said something along the lines that the environmental cost of making the turbine was way more than the savings will yield.

For how long?

[Ian Stirling]

To be realistic carbon-wise, you've got to cost your time in terms of carbon emissions.

[Weatherlawyer]

If you are on economy 7 or whatever it's called these days, just pump the water to an header tank at night.

"As it is "soft", rainwater is ideal for clothes washing and toilet flushing. Trials in Germany have shown extended life for washing machines fed with rain rather than hard water."

Traditional country living requires an eel or snails or something to feed on the algae that might form, or to feed on the things that might feed on the algae that might form. Obviously, if you intend to double filter your anks, the poor things will starve.

I his book: Popski's Private Army; Lt. Col. Vladimir Peniakoff wrote that the deserts of Egypt and Lybia are peppered with cisterns that are only in need of a little maintainance.

No doubt they began to go into disuse when Tiberius(?) banned all political infighting there. I doubt there was enough incentive to keep them going once political support for them was undermined.

Without warlords and powerful suzerain chiefs, this sort of self catering quickly dissipates because of banditry. Something worth thinking about when you grouse about taxation. Look what happened in Iraq when the Yanks and Tony B Liar started interfering:

No water, no oil, no hospitals, no food, no security and no more peace or freedom than they had under Saddam Hussein. The tossers Chimpzilla and Chimpette can't run their own countries properly without lying, cheating and stealing.

No wonder there is total anarchy in Iraq.

[Guy King]

The message from "Weatherlawyer" contains these words:

Great book. You're the only other person I've ever met who's read it.

[Weatherlawyer]

Have you read the other one? I remember in the mid '60's reading the same exploits written by one of his sergeants.

[Andy Dingley]

Me three. Dad has a signed copy (they met in Libya)

[David Hansen]

On 29 Mar 2006 04:54:14 -0800 someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

"How long does it take for a turbine to 'pay back' the energy used to manufacture it?

"The comparison of energy used in manufacture with the energy produced by a power station is known as the 'energy balance'. It can be expressed in terms of energy 'pay back' time, i.e. as the time needed to generate the equivalent amount of energy used in manufacturing the wind turbine or power station.

"The average wind farm in the UK will pay back the energy used in its manufacture within six to eight months, this compares favourably with coal or nuclear power stations, which take about six months."