ISE washing machines

[Ed Sirett]

ISTM that the initial cost of most white goods have come down a long long way over the last 25 years.

[Stephen Howard]

Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in the last 20 years? I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:

[Stephen Howard]

More than most, I'd say - and certainly more than the bods at Zanussi by the looks of it.

On the wife's brand new washing machine?? I think I'll go check if any Danish newspapers need a religious cartoonist instead...

Regards,

[BigWallop]

It's a much simpler job with one of these

I'd never be without mine. :-)

[Stephen Howard]

That's a start, I've got one of those...somewhere...

Regards,

[Andrew Gabriel]

Hotpoint. You only need to replace the drum spider and shaft assembly if the bearing has rusted on to the shaft. Otherwise you only need to replace the bearing and bearing seal (and I've only ever seen the inner bearing fail, so you usually don't need to bust a gut trying to get the smaller outer bearing out). It didn't take me anything like 6 hours, even first time. Subsequent replacements took about an hour or just over. BTW, it was about 18 years before the first bearing failed.

Problem I've got now is that the inner bearing seased at some point and the whole bearing assembly started turning in the drum bearing sleave, which means it's worn too big, wobbles even when you fit a brand new bearing, and consequently leaks enough water past the bearing seal to rust it in a year. That needs a new drum, which at around the £100 mark for a 22 year old machine, seems like a step too far. Bearings are dirt cheap (under a fiver), so I've kept it going by replacing them once a year, but the wear on the bearing sleeve is now too much. Just waiting for the VAT rate to go down and the Sales before I pension off my much loved 22 year old washer.

I've heard that a number of new machines no longer have replacable bearings. You have to replace the whole outer drum. Anyone know which ones these are (to avoid them)?

[Huge]

^ seized

You're welcome.

[Stephen Howard]

That's encouraging, thanks!

That's what I need to find out - I have a nasty feeling.

[Andrew Gabriel]

My original attempt was ceased.

[meow2222]

Sorry but theres no way you can tell the relative skill levels of the designers from their site. One can see theyre aiming for a better machine, but the issues they list there are just a tiny fraction of the factors that affect reliability and longevity. What makes the difference in machine life is both designer skill and budget - skillled designers produce cut price goods as wel as top end ones.

Its not difficult. Remove knob, trim the non-visible end, trim spindle and it will go back on in a more flush position.

NT

[meow2222]

That job's worse than it looks. the writer got lucky with the inner bearing, IME the bearing had to be painstakingly ground right through using a tiny die grinder. I also found that altho a bar is helpful, its not enough on its own. I made one of these:

It's a much simpler job with one of these

Have you done hotpoint bearings using one of those? I couldnt get one anywhere that would do the job.

NT

[Stephen Howard]

But they're not designers - they merely spec the machines based on practical experience of the sort of problems they're asked to fix on a regular basis. For example, their cheapest machine has a relatively slow spin speed...because it costs money to fit a decent bearing, and too high a spin speed will wear a cheap bearing out quite rapidly ( as it has done on my machine ). Their skill lies in knowing what's realistic spec for a given price with a view to producing a machine that's DIY serviceable.

Easy enough - but I bet the person who designed the machine worked out exactly how far the knob has to stick out to make it useable ( at least that's what I'd do ).

Regards,

[Stephen Howard]

[T i m]

1 year old Zanussi I rescued from landfill (via Freecycle).

One drum bearing had gone and the whole machine was replaced by their insurance company because to replace the bearing was uneconomically viable.

That machine *had* a one piece plastic outer tub, till I got the saber saw on it that is and it was put back together with a little help from my friends here (re adhesives, rubber extrusions, ideas etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. As mentioned somewhere on this thread the plastic tub was marked with 1100 rpm when the max speed of the machine is 1400? We only run it at 900 rpm to stay on the safe side.

[meow2222]

They have to design the machine in order to produce a spec for the parts - or are you saying they contract out the entire design process from start to finish to 3rd parties - if the latter, they are optimistic.

It really costs little to fit a bigger bearing. Its always more complex than the consumer eye view.

Lets hope. So far all they've done is say it is. We'd all love to believe it, but I think we know what sales talk counts for. The ablity to point out a few main shortcomings that any consumer can spot on mass market machines doesnt in itself prove anything.

I would have thought it was more about aesthetics. Certainly one needs to ensure its still workable before the trim, but I dont think thats very challenging.

In fact there's a point that relates to their reliability claims: a sticky out knob is going to see more and higher accidental forces, which does not suggest thorough design for max reliability. A knob with a shallow finger recess would be more robust due to being less vulnerable. Sticky out bits also suffer higher failures in shipping.

NT

[Stephen Howard]

True enough - and time will tell. The reports from buyers on the forums look encouraging, as does the Which review.

Had a look at various machines over the weekend, I was quietly chuffed to note that pretty much all the offerings from Bosch/Miele etc. came with sticky-out knobs.

Regards,

[Appin]

The message from T i m contains these words:

Whatever the machine claims to do, it's wise never to run the machine at the highest speed available.

With nine kids we've only had three washing machines in over thirty years.

No. 1: Hoover. Cheap model. One repair (bearings). By the time it died again, it really was done. Put into store for potential spares.

No. 2: Old model Zanussi. Cold water solenoid eventually failed. DIY repair using hot water solenoid from old Hoover. Bearings failed. Bought machine No. 3 but replaced bearings (DIY with some difficulty) so machine is working and spare.

No. 3: Miele. No repairs yet.

Not bad for machines which are on virtually all day.

[Rod]

So folks, do we want washing machines to last 30 years? Of course it seems an appealing idea, but...

Say that ended up making the purchase price 1000 pounds. (And let us ignore inflation and interest and boring things like that.)

After 10 years, it might look a bit tatty, but should have 666 pounds of life left in it.

After 20 years, it will almost certainly look tatty, but should have 333 pounds of life left in it.

Whatever model you buy, you are pretty much stuck with it for a very long time. Whether they bring out massively improved spin speeds, reduced hot water usage, low temperature programs or anything else, you will not be in a position to catch up. (So you had better go for the top of the range when you buy, just in case...)

Whatever might go wrong in the first 25 years, you are pretty much forced to pay out for a repair because replacement wouldn't be a viable option. You are therefore reliant on parts availability - which is difficult to ensure over very long periods.

Whatever tattiness it exhibits, you have to put up with (or put a lot of effort into tarting up).

Whatever maintenance such as cleaning filters, soap drawers, and such like, you are forced to perform. (There is no way you will dodge it for

30 years. Unfortuantely.)

Perhaps there is some optimum that might not be so very far from current w/m lives (at least, for the better ones).

By the way, many years ago, life for a w/m averaged something like 8-10 years and the most common coffin nail was rust. Anyone happen to know corresponding life and terminal condition for today's w/ms?

[BigWallop]

But. If the machine was built to last 30 years, it wouldn't look tatty at any time through its proposed life span. It should be built to last 30 years, not built to the same standard as they are now and might last thirty years. The quality of the machine would have to be high enough to make the body of the machine last the length of time expected.

You might get bored looking at the same machine for 30 years, but a few magnets would cure that. :-)

)sorry about replying at the top of the post, but it takes to long to scroll down(

[meow2222]

A stainless steel front wold address this. And cost more.

NT