Is CCTV a good deterrent

[john Smith]

Hello,

my car got broken into a few weeks ago, my question is

regardless of cost which would make a better deterrent

i) infra-red CCTV which would be hooked upto a video to record what happens on my drive, or

ii) PIR activated sun flood to light up the drive.

My doubts about the CCTV is would it may attract idiots to thrown stones at it / my car out of camera shot

My doubts about the PIR is how sensitive are they. I've been told they are activated by the disturbance of the wind.

I live on the side of a valley and it can be a bit breezy up here.

Thanks in adbvance for any one who can settle my quandry.

[Ian Stirling]

Properly set-up PIR is not. You've got to think like a PIR sensor when doing the setup. The sensor "sees" a 90 degree * 10 degree (or whatever) field of view, in thermal wavelengths. Hotter objects appear brighter. The way the optics work is to take 20 or so points across this area, and measure their temperature, looking for changes in the total.

If you've got anything moving (especially moving across the sky) like bushes or trees, then this can cause false triggering. As can cats. Proper siting, and adjustment of sensitivity can make false triggering much less likely.

Regardless of cost, I'd employ several burly blokes to stand round it looking menacing.

[Lurch]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 18:28:51 GMT, "john Smith" strung together this:

I'd do both.

Wouldn't the idea be that the car was in shot?

It's not the qwind that triggers them, it's what the wind moves. A decent PIR, rather than a cheapo B&Q one, will be of a better quality and some have sensitivity adjustment. If you fit a good PIR and spend a bit of time setting it up it won't come on unless it's supposed to.

[Jeff]

A quality car alarm would work anywhere and give you a reduction in your insurance premium if Thatcham Approved

Regards Jeff

[Owain]

"john Smith" wrote | regardless of cost which would make a better deterrent | i) infra-red CCTV which would be hooked upto a video to record | what happens on my drive, or | ii) PIR activated sun flood to light up the drive.

I think the PIR light would be better, as it is providing some reaction to the presence of intruders. You can get ones that have a wireless chime inside to alert you, or wire the outside lamp and PIR to some inside lights through a 10s delay relay, so anyone triggering the PIR gets the impression that someone has started to take an interest indoors at their activities.

If possible, also improve your perimiter security. A wall, gate or fence even to navel height is a psychological barrier to entry to your property. The old favourites of prickly hedge and noisy gravel paths also help.

| My doubts about the CCTV is would it may attract idiots to throw stones | at it / my car out of camera shot

Yes. Catapults are also quite good at taking out cameras. You could consider having a visible camera, and a second concealed one in such a position that it would catch persons trying to evade the first. If you are using cameras for evidential purposes in positions that can view public property then you fall under Data Protection Act requirements.

Owain

[keng]

CCTV is effective *if* constantly monitored and law enforcement/security agencies are able to respond quickly to the problem. Identification of alleged offenders from video or still images is a nightmare as far as evidential requirements are concerned. However, they are a good weapon in the layman's arsenal of *retribution by whatever means* (eg. along the lines of Tony Martin).

The namby pamby, politically correct, wan*ers that have destroyed the social fabric of our society will never see sense but it's only in the last week or two that public opinion is starting to be heard at last. It may have been tongue in cheek but there is a lot to be said for the burly blokes suggestion. Better still if you can d.i.y. then nobody but you knows about it.

These stupid, chav fuc* heads haven't very much going on between their ears so we have to adapt Pavlov's theory a little bit to *help* them understand.

Although this system has worked for me over the years because I'm physically able to do it, it may not be to everyone's taste and apart from that it does become illegal at some point if you're not careful :-)

[Capitol]

Hi, CCTV can help. You will also need a 500W PIR floodlamp system. Don't bother with a VCR, use a dedicated 120GB hard disc recorder(about £350). You really need both b/w and colour cameras, but colour cameras need lots of light to work correctly. Time lapse recording, say 2-5 fps is probably best, because then you will always get the action before the lighting operates as well. Cheap cameras have only limited resolution--say 300lines, so only really work close up--say 20 ft. From experience, even quite poor pictures of people with hoods at 40-60 ft can provide quite a lot of information about build, height, age etc.

Hope this helps

Regards Capitol

[Andrew Chesters]

Wind aside - it shouldn't be a problem; you need to decide what you are trying to do. Deter, or collect evidence of, the criminal act. A VERY obvious, protected camera linked with lights is probably the best deterrent (short of a Rotweiler running around). 2nd lights on their own. And totally hopeless as a deterrent would be a low-light camera.

Without more details (location, chav risk etc) it's a bit difficult to give sensible options. Garage? You did say ignore cost!

Talking to your local crime prevention plod could be valuable.

[Mike]

On offer at Maplins at the moment if anybody is after one.

From which you identify who it is and get them dealt with privately. No point using the established routes as they don't/won't solve the cause of the problem.

[Capitol]

And I forgot to say, run the cameras and the recorder off a UPS. The total loading is

[Marcus Fox]

Not really, this has been done to death on the legal newsgroups. You can view or record anything or anyone that can be seen from your property or a public place (except of course in the obvious cases where you follow someone with a video camera and try to look up their dress).

Marcus

[Bob Eager]

Not since about this time last year - just in time for me!

gives a good summary of conditions which exempt a CCTV operator - and the OP would, I think, fall into the exempt category.

[T i m]

Would you be so kind as to offer a link to a 'good' PIR / flood please Lurch? (prefereably not 'silly money' but something that has a sharp cutoff range would be good .)

Is there a more 'subtle' means of illumination (3m front onto public path then car) that might be bright enough to assist a CCTV camera whilst not being a flood .. some sort of bottom illuminated bulkhead lamp or summat?

All the best ..

T i m

[Owain]

"Bob Eager" wrote | > If you are using cameras for evidential purposes in positions | > that can view public property then you fall under Data | > Protection Act requirements. | Not since about this time last year - just in time for me! |

| This gives a good summary of conditions which exempt a CCTV | operator - and the OP would, I think, fall into the exempt category.

That's interesting. The exemption however appears to be limited to systems which are used for recording and passing to police. Using the system to surveil an area, to watch what is happening and *look at the activity of any individual* would still appear to require registration.

Owain

[Bob Eager]

nal%20guide.pdf

No, not if you don't operate (e.g. pan, zoom) remotely. And the targets are not your employees. And you pass the recordings *only* to police, or keep them yourself.

[Owain]

"T i m" wrote | Is there a more 'subtle' means of illumination (3m front onto | public path then car) that might be bright enough to assist a | CCTV camera whilst not being a flood ..

B/W CCTV cameras are quite sensitive to infra-red so can see in total 'darkness' provided you provide enough IR illumination. This is one area where LED lighting appears to be moderately useful.

Owain

[T i m]

Thanks for that .. I may be able to use i/r as well but I wouldn't mind a 'real' auto light (anyway) and believe colour cameras give a lot more information (rather than "he was wearing a grey hat, grey top, grey trousers and had demonic eyes") ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[Lurch]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:36:02 GMT, T i m strung together this:

Nothing like a challenge eh! The one's I have used in the past as a quality PIR\flood combo have been from a manufacturer by the name of B.E.D. Not sure if they're available on the web, I've always got them from a wholesaler in Nottingham. On my own house I use Steinel PIR's with seperate floods\bulkheads. Much more reliable and easier to setup so that the light is where you want it, and not where the PIR has to point. I've always fitted Steinel PIR's and not had any problems with them. Voltek do a range of low voltage lighting controllers which are of high quality and use 12V for the PIR's and switch the lighting through relays mounted inside the property but that's a bit OTT for this application though I think.

For a discreet bulkhead fitting Denmans do a standard rectangular bulkhead with the top half covered, IYSWIM. I think they're made by Eterna.

[Lurch]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:31:28 GMT, T i m strung together this:

If you're thinking of getting a decent outdoor camera in colour then a colour day\night camera would be the best solution. Something similar to this, , which switches to B\W when the lux drops to below that at which the colour camera can still see effectively. There are some cheaper ones about, but the Sony chip is one of the better ones at the moment.

[Paulr]

A popular Sony chipped camera we do for just this type of application is this one

as it sees in colour during the day, switches to black and white at 0.3 lux and then turns it's infrared lights on which will light up to 20m in complete darkness.

You just need to ensure you park your car in the right place each night. The alternative is an expensive Pan Tilt Zoom camera that allows you to adjust the camera to where your car is.

What CCTV tends to do is to put off the louts as it is easier to go elswhere - ie those without CCTV - than it is to get caught on yours. The Police call it Displacement. Shop A has CCTV, Shop B doesn't. Most crime will be in shop B. DVR advice is sound too, and something like this

need not cost the earth and you are not fiddling around with video tapes!

I would be happy to help if you want, as there are a few more issues you need to consider such as data protection mentioned (not usually a problem for residential installations, but there are a few things to keep an eye on there, assumming the car is parked on public roads), price and ease of install. Give me a ring on the number on the website

and I will do my best to help. Paul