Is a TV bolted to a wall portable?

I currently supply an LCD TV for tenants.

The Scottish Gumint has decreed that the electrical apparatus in let property must in future be inspected (both PAT test and comprehensive wiring check) by an accredited electrician (which seems likely to mean 'an electrical contractor large enough to afford it', and likely to exclude individual electricians).

This inspection is to take place every 7 years, but you can predict a rapid reduction to 1 year when the number of electrical problems doesn't fall, or perhaps even increases (it's a fair bet that there are more problems with wiring which is new rather than years old).

Nothing I can do about the wiring check, which I imagine will mean condemning anything in a metal box, anything with rewireable fuses, anything with rounded edges, and any small cable whose conductors are stranded. And certainly steel conduit in a house, because that'll be far older than the 19 year old new hire sent by the accredited employer.

I can remove all portable appliances, or sell them to the tenant (tenant's own equipment, which I've sometimes found to be dangerous when they leave it behind, is excluded from the test requirement, as "of course" are Council properties).

But what about the TV which is bolted to the wall, and which I think may be a a desirable item for a tenant? Is that 'portable'?

The only sensible thing I can see in the regulations is a suggestion that RCDs are a good idea - but that's not even a requirement, just a suggestion.

Reply to
Windmill
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Unfurnished on an AST (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is)? Or some other kind of tenancy?

If all landlords are going to be required to test all equipment, then you can bet damn near all electricians are going to get themselves signed up to be able to do it...

Can you imagine the headache if you, landlord, were held liable for every single piece of electrical equipment that the tenant ever brought into the property...? Utterly unworkable.

If you "sell" the TV to the tenant, then you're going to be buying a new TV with every tenancy.

If it's "portable", does that exclude it from the testing requirement?

Have to admit, if this is an unfurnished AST, then I'd not be providing a TV. Seems way OTT to me, and just makes a headache. By all means, provide a wall-mount VESA bracket for them to mount their own flat TV on, but...

Reply to
Adrian

Just test it.

"Portable" is a misnomer anyway.

The formal name is:

In-service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment

The point being, you would normally inspect and test a TV. The fact it is installed makes no difference to the validity of such a check.

The test part is pretty meaningless on Class II equipment anyway (there is not much you can usefully test in service, as opposed to type testing at the factory).

But the inspection part, particularly of lead condition, plugs and fuses are very well worth doing.

Reply to
Tim Watts

or anything in a plastic box after Amendment 3.

Of course. Have you seen the standard of council house rewires?

Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

ISTR that 15 - 20 years ago there was a problem in the school where I worked in testing Baby Belling cookers plugged into a 13A socker. The type of element used had too high an earh leakage current for the item to pass. They were then connecter to a switched fused spur obviating the need for testing as they were no longer portable.

I know that there are flaws in transfering this logic to your situation

1 the regulations mey (probably) have changes 2 Your TV would still (possibly) be portable as the cable will plug into the TV using an IEC connector

Any thoughts from the experts?

Malcolm Race

Reply to
Malcolm Race

If the tv is on those keyhole shaped holes, then I'd say it was portable, but does it have a handle and how far down the elf and safety pit do you want to go. One migight suggest that anything with a removable plug to the mains is, more or less portable. I have a portable coocker, but its clamped to a piece of worktop, is that portable, who knows.

Sounds to me like making work for the working man to do at the expense of the landlord and the increase in rent that this will generate. The biggest problems in rented accomodation tend to be badly maintained gass appliences that generate carbon monoxide. I'd strongly suggest a monitor for this is in all flats and houses with gas appliences.

Its just aseasy for a rat to chew through a modern cable as it is an old one in my experience. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

In article , Windmill writes

Landlords' wiring check every 7 years doesn't sound too onerous and a roll of PAT labels is only a couple of quid.

Reply to
fred

Then their Advisors were completely wrong, as there is very little mention in the 'Code of Practice for In-service Inspection and Testing' of 'portable' against 'fixed' equipment, they both should be assessed to see if they require Inspection.

All appliances/items that are liable to be damaged must be inspected, And it isnt, contrary to popular belief, annually. It can be every week, or every 5 years. Each appliance/item should be risk assessed to see what Inspection Regime it should have. A portable drill on a building site may need to be inspected every week. An oven in a domestic house may need it once every 5 years. Also, the Inspector/Tester does not recommend when the item should be inspected - that is down to the customer/duty holder.

Reply to
A.Lee

This is at least one accepted definition.

'An appliance of less than 18kg in mass that is intended to be moved whilst in operation or an appliance which can easily be moved from one place to another, e.g. vacuum cleaner, toaster, kettle.'

Whether it is plugged in or not doesn't seem to matter. So a hair drier in an hotel room which is fed from a FCU to prevent it being nicked would still need testing.

A TV on a fixed bracket would seem not to need testing.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

No, but I can guess, based on the reports I see of their performance in other areas.

Reply to
Windmill

The tenant should be the one dictating what gets tested, after all he lives there. If he wants something to be safe, he can inspect it himself.

Reply to
Tough Guy no. 1265

No, a Short Assured Tenancy on a flat that's fully furnished so that a tenant can move in and have most of the things he/she will immediately need.

May be difficult though.

And God help tenants when landlords are forced to raise rents to cover the cost.

They might just try it though, given enough time.

Or not providing one.

Times were tough in 2008/9 and the TV seemed to help in finding tenants. The alternative was to pay a hundred pounds a month in Council Tax for an *empty* property. They keep changing the rules; latest is that you pay double if the flat remains empty for too long. Fascist bastards.

Reply to
Windmill

At present I do things like that myself, more or less automatically, but I'm now going to have someone, probably a young guy who's a recent hire (maybe even on a zero hours contract) who'll want to find problems that aren't there.

Reply to
Windmill

It's bolted to the wall on a TV mount which uses anchor bolts and Allen locking screws (just in case!)

I got rid of gas long ago because paying 100+ per year to a plumber who often didn't show up on the allotted day, and just took a 15 minute lokk around if he did, seemed ridiculous.

I've seen a cat do that (scratch through a flex). Haven't seen mice do it, and I don't *think* there are rats except of course in the sewers.

Reply to
Windmill

Actually I misremembered - it's compulsory every 5 years, they're suggesting more frequent checks already, and you can bet it'll be like catalytic converter replacements at MOT time.

Reply to
Windmill

What, you have to fix 'em if they don't actually work? That wouldn't be a bad thing, would it?

Reply to
Adrian

Ah, yes, that makes a TV pretty essential.

Just bite the bullet.

Reply to
Adrian

He's just not using old enough cars!

Reply to
Capitol

On 25 Apr 2015, "Dave Plowman (News)" grunted:

IIRC a sparks once told me it did depend whether the appliance was hard- wired via a FCU, or had a removable plug...

Reply to
Lobster

Both of those statements are wrong. From the IET Code of Practice: "Other than the fixed installation, all electrical equipment in an installation, whether permanently connected or connected by a plug and socket outlet, should be inspected and tested in accordance with the recommendations contained in this Code of Practice"

The next page shows an illustration of equipment that may need I&T. Amongst these are a kettle, extension lead, washing machine and a fixed Air Con unit. It is 138 pages long, and goes into detail about what should be I&T'd. Many things will not need to be I&T'd, as their potential risk is so low.

Reply to
A.Lee

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