Introduction of Ring Circuits

I met up with an older electrician yesterday and was reminiscing as old men do !! I was talking of my teenage years in the mid 1950's and helping my father rewire an old property he'd bought - metal fish wires and threading steel conduit were the 'apprentice's' tasks. The guy challenge my memory on the introduction of ring circuits saying that it was well after that they were brought in (another memory of crossing line and neutral in a box and the resulting impressively big bang when the large cast iron fuse box was thrown on!).

I've no doubt that I was correct but can anyone point to when the ring system was introduced.

Rob

Reply to
robgraham
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Reply to
ARWadsworth

robgraham used his keyboard to write :

I believe during WWII as a means to reduce the amount of copper used.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

the logic behind its development will allow me to be a bit more positive next time I bore someone with my reminiscences. Rob

Reply to
robgraham

Late 1940s. Perhaps you encountered the old 4 fused rings?

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Reply to
Tabby

Late 1940s. Perhaps you encountered the old 4 fused rings?

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Some fascinating reading - amazing to think that we were fighting a war when people were debating all this.

Reply to
DerbyBoy

I've no idea when it was introduced, but it seems a great system to me, as are the fused square-pin plugs.

I spend some time in Italy, and the system there seems very silly, with 3 types of plug (fat and thin 3-pin, and what I take to be the French circular 2-pin).

If only the continent would adopt the UK system, and in return the UK would stop the insane practice of storing water in the roof-space, which at the same time maximises the chance of freezing, and also maximises the damage that will be done when that occurs.

Reply to
Timothy Murphy

Ring circuits are superior to radials in terms of safety, reliability and cost, and fwiw eco credentials since they use less copper (in most cases). So its a shame that, due to some foolish thinking being presented as wisdom, they are losing popularity to radials.

Re water in the roof space, what system do you suggest would be better?

NT

Reply to
Tabby

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has both pros and cons set out for the meeting held at the IET in 2007. (As the merest dilettante I was persuaded that radials were better than rings, and trees better than both.)

Reply to
Robin

Lovegrove's commentary in the disadvantages pdf there shows how devoid of elementary logic his views are.

NT

Reply to
Tabby

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Tabby saying something like:

Beer in the roof space, of course.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Do they use this system anywhere else in the world?

Reply to
Timothy Murphy

I think you do have to remember that the UK in all likelihood introduced piped water to its populace first, and that the tank in the attic was the solution to cover the possibility of irregularity in the supply. So it's historical, just as much as the ring main was introduced for what is now a historical reason.

I would suggest that your aggression on the topic has almost a hysterical atmosphere to it; like ring mains the very significant majority in the UK is happy with a) it's domestic electrical distribution, and b) it's water system.

Rob

Reply to
robgraham

yep. And in future if Huhne gets his way we will need a battery in the roof as well.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

OTH a tank in the loft with a good few gallons in it is a useful reserve should the supply fail. This thread started with an electrical circuit developed in the time of WW2. Many a resident at that time was still able to carry on making tea ,cooking with water from a loft tank until the water supply was restored. Hopefully air raids won't happen like that again but with water becoming a scarcer resource who knows what the future may bring in the way of rationing.

G.Harman

Reply to
damduck-egg

Minimizing the quantity of copper required seems to me entirely reasonable, today as much as in the past. Presumably it saves a little power, as well as copper.

Storing water in the roof seems to me entirely unreasonable, even for the purpose you mention. In Italy where I spend a lot of time, they have public taps in the street for any occasion when it might be necessary (which is never, in my experience to date).

My viewpoint is that if the pressure is sufficient to get the water up to the roof, it is more than enough to get it to the loo.

Reply to
Timothy Murphy

The British system came about when available mains supplies couldn't keep up with the peak demand. The tank in the loft filled up overnight, and emptied when the family had their wash and used the toilet before they went to work, then refilled again during the day while everybody was at work.

In the last half Century, things have improved to the point where the mains can cope, though when I woke up a few months back to no water at the drinking water tap and a water feature in the street outside, my passengers were very glad I had a bathful of water in the loft tank.

Reply to
John Williamson

That alas is only half the story. Remember much of the uk was originally piped with 1/2" bore lead incoming mains. Quite often you have decent static pressure, but low dynamic pressure or flow rate. So stored water killed a number of birds with one stone. Firstly it solved the flow rate problem. Then remember that most water was heated by solid fuel - typically a back boiler. That required gravity circulation. Finally hot water cylinders designed for mains pressure are far more expensive and substantial than conventional vented ones.

Reply to
John Rumm

In the recent 'history of the bathroom' programme (BBC4 I think) the early piped water was supplied on a rota, so you had a particular day when your street had water.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

I was about to pipe up* with the suggestion that that's better wrt hygiene (legionella etc) though you obviously need a pump to supply the house from that. And when the leccy's off as well ...

  • pun unintended.
Reply to
John Stumbles

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