Insurance for a renovation project - where can I get it?

[Vir Campestris]

I'll tell you the whole history. I feel I must tell someone!

House #1 came back with a surveyors description that boiled down to - take the plaster off the front wall along the whole length, and then the builder will be able to quote you for repairs. We didn't like that, and dropped out.

House #2 has the vendors from hell. Despite every effort on their part we'd still like to buy it. But the stopper has come from a third party - or several in fact. Every insurance company we've tried. We can't get building cover for it.

We knew it would need re-wiring, and had planned this in to our budget. The vendor assured us that you don't need to bring old properties up to latest regs - and while that's true in law, it's downright misleading in fact. The insurance companies as one are demanding electrical certificates. Since some of the switches belong in an antique shop, they may have a point, and since it's thatched they have another one - but the gripping hand is they don't have to deal with us if they don't want to. The wiring isn't that ancient (it's all PVC) and I didn't think it was likely to burn the place down before we could get it done. But they want galvanised trunking!

It occurs to me though that people do buy houses as renovation projects, and some of them are in far worse condition than this. So does anyone know an insurance company that will deal with a listed, thatched, timber framed building that does not have wiring to current standards?

Andy

[Nightjar]

PVC cable has been in common use for the best part of 50 years. According to BASEC, most manufacturers give a life expectancy of 20 years when run without exceeding the rated temperature of 70C. Running at 80C will bring that down to seven years.

You might want to look at MICC as an alternative. The higher initial cost may well be offset by the fact that it will be easier to install (although not necessarily easier to get looking good when surface mounted), it will satisfy any fire safety requirements and it has a life expectancy in excess of 100 years, so you won't need to rewire again.

Colin Bignell

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 19 October 2013 19:37 Vir Campestris wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You may want a more specialist "self build" type insurance - not something run of the mill - if it is that bad.

[David.WE.Roberts]

Have you tried NFU Mutual?

Sounds to be right up their street.

Cheers

Dave R

[Vir Campestris]

First one we called :(

Andy

[meow2222]

Insurance is overrated imho. Of course its of value, but sometimes when you look at all the risks you're better off without it. That might well be the case if it would mean missing out on a real opportunity.

If you need it for a mortgage, I don't know. I can't believe some of the insurance specialists wouldnt want your business, old wiring isnt a big risk factor normally. Most houses are NTCS.

NT

[John Rumm]

I think to be fair there is a subtle use of language there one needs to take note of. The 20 years is IIUC with the circuit running at the maximum permitted temperature all the time, rather than 20 years being the norm if you never exceed the spec.

If its generally run cooler, then you can expect a significantly longer life, and in many cases pretty much indefinite for PVC that's not heavily thermally loaded.

Indeed.

So long as you keep moisture out of the wires!

[John Rumm]

In this case I expect its the run of "thatched", "timber frame", and "listed" all in the same sentence that is scaring them off.

[meow2222]

Its not really a valid reason to decline business. They're just risk factors that translate to a higher risk & premium.

NT

[Jim K]

Who's insuring it now? Istr they are obliged to continue ... For a fee of course...

Jim K

[Jim K]

Who's insuring it now? Istr they are obliged to continue ... For a fee of course...

Jim K

[meow2222]

MICC's fatal flaw. If it weren't for that it'd be reliable.

I would have thought AFCIs would avoid more fires than RCDs, but they never caught on here.

Is trunking too expensive?

NT

[Vir Campestris]

On 20/10/2013 09:29, Jim K wrote: > Who's insuring it now? Istr they are obliged to continue ... > For a fee of course...

They seemed to think not. "Has it always been thatched?" was one of the questions they asked! Although they have changed underwriters since the house was bought - probably with the Building Society's insurance, as the current insurers are the bank that took over the BS.

Certainly they won't give us cover. We suspect there may have been some economy with the truth, which of course tends not to come to light until a claim is made and refused.

Andy

[ARW]

[Nightjar]

My point was really that PVC has been around long enough that you can't assume it is OK simply because it is PVC.

I agree that service life is always highly dependant upon the conditions of use. Even in a domestic setting, some cables, such as those to dusk to dawn outside lights, may have a 50% duty cycle and, of course, if any of that is exposed to sunlight, it will embrittle long before it gets to

20 years old.

...

If you are doing a complete re-wire, that probably only involves cutting off the first six inches of the reel and making the connections properly. Personally, I would avoid a thatched roof anyway. They might look picturesque, but IMO they are more trouble than they are worth.

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

On 20/10/2013 09:39, [e-mail] wrote: ...

Galvanised trunking has a very industrial look.

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

Many insurers have rules for what risks that will accept and what they won't. If you trip over a risk that falls into their exclusion list, then they don't quote - end of story. (it may simply be that they can't get certain risks underwritten)

[spuorgelgoog]

And in-situ MICC can be dried out with a blowtorch.

Except maybe not in a thatched building of course.

Owain

[dennis]

One of my dusk to dawn lights has some pvc cable feeding it on a Southish facing wall and it isn't brittle after 29 years.

I must see if I can still read who made it.. nope.

[D.M.Chapman]

Yep. Here in folkestone our buildings insurance renewal went from a couple of hundred quid to nearly 2k after the earth quake here - and we hadn't claimed for anything!

Talking to insurance companies trying to find a decent price several admitted that they didn't want to insure Folkestone properties anymore and we had only got a quote as we had insurance with them already.

Probably 50% of the ones I tried declined to quote due to the earthquake. The ones that would quote were hardly any more expensive than the previous year. Clearly some had just decided that they didn't want the risk.

Darren