Installing toilet in internal bathroom

[David]

As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet. Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

The new loo will basically be advanced forward from the current location by about 6 feet, then right about 4 feet, where it will be in the middle of the bathroom, against a stud partition (behind which is the middle of the old bathroom, soon to be a bedroom). I want to take the soil pipe straight back from the loo, through/under the partition, and between the new bedroom floor and the ceiling below, parallel to the joists, and through the external wall, where it will emerge 6 feet away from the old exit point. It will join the soil stack at the same place as before.

I reckon I'll have enough fall on the soil pipe as it runs under the bedroom floor; but if not I could always break through the ceiling below (a kitchen; OK?) which is pretty high and very poor condition, and could easily take a suspended ceiling 3 or 4 inches lower.

At the moment the bit that most worries me is how to connect the toilet to the soilpipe under the bedroom floor. Should the loo have a vertical or horizontal soil pipe exit?; am I likely to be able to bury it all in the 4" stud partition and/or under the floor? Are there ways to do this (other than Saniflow - no thanks!) which I don't know about? Unfortunately because this is a corner terrace there is very little outside wall at the back of the house to play with, so I can't site the toilet in a corner, which would allow boxing in of the soil pipe in the bathroom or bedroom. It has to traverse the bedroom in the middle.

Hope I've explained the problem and the layout clearly! Thanks for any advice. (Watch for my follow up in a few weeks on ventilation requirements!)

David

[The Natural Philosopher]

This was covered elsewhere. You need IMHO a horizontal outlet from the pan to get as much height as possible, and an overall run with at least a 1:60 slope. I'd advise running basin/bath wastes seperately. Pipe must be 4". You are supposed to have a rodding eye where it bends 9o degrees

- essentially outside in your cae.

[David]

Thanks NP - yes, I read several threads about this before posting, but couldn't find anything about my specific issue of going through the stud partition, in the middle of the room. I'd already worked out that a fall of no more than 2" across the bedroom should be OK; I think the problem is really how to get the pipe down through the partition to below floor level in the first place without encroaching on the bedroom...

Regards David

[BillR]

If your partition wall is not thick enough for the soil pipe then obviously it will have to be external to the wall. I assume your toilet is to be a modern low level suite and not a hidden cistern? If you already have the toilet and the exit is horizontal there should be enough space between it and the back of the cistern for a vertical pipe with a 90 deg bend at the top anyway esp if you use a "space saver" coupler. If you have yet to buy the toilet, consider a vertical outlet one.

[David]

We do have a toilet (reasonably new, staandard low level), with horizontal pan outlet, but am prepared to replace it with one having a vertical outlet if that's what it takes; and it sounds like it might. Might depend on what's below the floor under the partition I suppose (sorry I'm a bit vague but I don't actually get the keys to the place till the weekend! - so watch this space for a panicked posting on Saturday!)

David

[David]

Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?

My plan is to build a cupboard around the boiler, and probably to put up a new, small, stud partition alongside it such that the boiler will be located in a cupboard at the end of the landing rather than in what will be a bedroom. Are there any pitfalls (ventilation, regulations etc?) which I need to be aware of, eg having a boiler in the bedroom or landing? It's a combi job (Sime Friendly Format 100E).

Thanks David

[N. Thornton]

I sure hope there's a floor in your plan, as using the loo with no floor is a dodgy business.

Simple way to use space efficiently.

Boiler in bedroom is fine, but be aware they put out a lot of heat, acting like a radiator. When you chop up your room you're gonig to change the heat distribution, just be aware of that and plan for some sensible balance.

I just re-read: you will presumably need a good dose of cupboard ventilation.

Regards, NT

[Owain]

"N. Thornton" wrote | > Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the | > existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in | > the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what? | Simple way to use space efficiently.

Until you drop a spanner or bit of boiler and smash the pan.

Sigh.

Owain

[Brian S Gray]

I have just boxed in a boiler into a new airing cupboard, but only after checking that the manual supplied with the boiler indicated that this was acceptable - and specified a small minumum clearance round it. I am also aware that I may have to empty the airing cupboard for the annual boiler inspection (or in the event of a problem requiring access)

I would second the warning of another respondent to think about the heat leaking from the boiler if you are having it in a bedroom - although I am not sure how much of the heat escaping from our airing cupboard comes from the pipes to the boiler and how much from the hot water cylinder (all insulated.)

[N. Thornton]

Boilers put out a lot of heat, they're like radiators only hotter. So if one goes in a cupboard, not only will it need some good ventilation, but also I would think something to prevent some fool stacking bedding up against it. I would be inclined to section off that bit of the cupboard and put lots of vent grill in - or possibly have the cupboard not go the full height, with the boiler above it.

From: Owain ( [e-mail]) "N. Thornton" wrote

This is elementarily avoided.

Regards, NT

[David]

Thanks. Yes good point, in fact I've been trying to get hold of a manual to check this in parallel with my original post, without success. I also don't know what the overall room ventilation requirements are.

Would anybody happen to have a manual, or be able to suggest where I could get one? I can't even track down the UK distributors at the moment. (Boiler is a Sime combi, Friendly Format 100E).

Nobody's commented on whether I can locate my boxed-in boiler on the landing (my preferred location); I've never seen this done before and wonder whether it's a no-no (eg fire risk?)

Thanks David

[John]

I have the manual to hand for the Friendly but alas not the Friendly Format. However its likely to be equivalent since from memory the casing construction and insulation is similar. This DOES require compartment ventilation to BS 5440:2

The landing has no particular problem for the installation of this model as long as you can meet the maximum flue length required. Varies slightly dependant on rear, left or right flue entry but about 2.3 metres max equivalent length

[Dave Plowman]

Hmm. I've got an old floorstanding Potterton Kingfisher 80 which is in the airing cupboard - just over twice the volume of the boiler casing. It is well ventilated, but I'd not say it gives off more heat than a rad - unless you mean a small one. Keeps the bathroom nice and warm, though.

The casing, incidently, never gets as hot as a rad.

[David]

Cheers, John. Flue length isn't an issue since the beast is already in situ; all I'm doing is building cupboards/partitions around it.

What would be really helpful is if you could let me have any contact details for Sime (mfr and/or UK distributor) from your manual; sounds really lame I know, but I can't locate them anywhere!

David