Incorrect Wiring - What danger

[Doctor Evil]

So do I.

This one claims to be a pro. It is clear he is someone who muscled his way into the game. he no formal education in boioers that is clear. A snip from an old post: ___________

John:

Adam:

John:

As Winston Churchill said "There are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics!"

No matter what you think you understand in this reality you do not get over

100% efficiency __________

This man who calls himself the "boilerdoc", didn't know that condensing boilers can have over 100% efficiency, in fact 109% is the max. It is due to recovering latent heat, only sensible heat is calculated up to 100%.

He implied that peopel who belive yiu can get over 100% efficiency figures be,ieve in "fairies". Anyone who studied boilers would know this, it is so fundamental.

I despair. Where do they come from?

Take advise from such people with caution.

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[Doctor Evil]

The point a power socket ring.

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[Bob Eager]

You can't even understand anything simple, let alone advanced.

[Doctor Evil]

I would not understand any of your funnies, advanced or not. Now learn to write on web sites properly.

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[Bob Eager]

You need to leran to write, and the correct usage (which so far eludes you) of the word 'advanced', which is not the same as 'advance'...

[Mike]

vocabulary.

Nothing wrong with plastic pipe. It is neat if you use it properly, though I doubt if dIMM does.

[Lurch]

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 20:23:01 -0000, "Doctor Evil" strung together this:

You keep coming back to this website thing, what website?

[Mike]

Thanks. IMO large scale overrating is the only thing that keeps UK electrical systems safe. Roll on IEE wiring regs going in the bin and us adopting German/Swedish ones.

[F-Red]

Tim S

Tim, you can try and justify your troll feeding anyway you like and I can Plonk both the author and the thread if it irritates me, until one of the simpletons changes their nick or the *thread name*. I find it interesting that of the regulars with the most real world knowledge to offer e.g. Ed Sirett, Andrew Gabriel, Set Square, etc don't feel the need to take part in your tradition, perhaps a bit older and wiser then you? you are either part of the problems or part of the solution in life. No prizes to see were you fit.

[Tim S]

I don't need to justify anything to you.

Which is the correct thing to do when the topic changes...

Whatever.

Is this a troll? Certainly reads like one.

[Hands On]

This is a strange thread. Andy, Dr Evil and one or two others ar saying use only 2.5mm on ring mains, yet others continually insist tha need not be the case and lighter cable may be used. For saying th sensible and the regulations, Dr Evil is being castigated. Either ther are too many trolls here or there are a lot of stupid people around.

I advise those seeking guidance to only take notice of Dr Evil and And Wade on this ridiculous thread, otherwise you may end up with a fire i your house and in jail

-- Hands On

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Err, the MCB would trip - regardless of the cable size. The load you've specified is near 70 amps.

Obviously you don't. Ring power circuits were never meant for whole house heating.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

IMHO, surface run plastic pipe ain't going to look as neat as copper with end feed fittings. But that's just an opinion.

Others might be happy with surface mount TW&E - or plastic conduit - in a conservatory, but I preferred the look of MICC and the appropriate accessories - metal clad rather than plastic.

But like all things 'style' it's purely personal.

[Doctor Evil]

It certainly is. Most of the poster here are dangerous. Idiots like Roger, Plowman, John fishman, the Rum Bugger, the Jerry fella. All barking the lot of them. 1.5mm ring mains? Some put MICC cable in domestic homes too. Barking! the lot of them.

To casual readers after advice, please do not take any notice of them.

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[Bob Eager]

No, they're not. The original statement was that 1.5mm could be used, and be fine, in absolutely ideal conditions. However, those conditions are very unlikely to apply, so in practice it would not be compliant (or safe). That was all said right at the time, but Drivel Coot has jumped on it, ignored what was actually said, and proceeded to attack everyone as he usually does.

It's unlikely that, in the real world, there will be no grouping. It is unlikely that the ring will be short enough, and connections good enough, to get a satisfactorily low earth fault loop impedance. So no one is suggesting that it should be done...just that, in theory, it is possible under ideal conditions.

Take notice of the original statement and you'd never get that far anyway.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I, for one, once the evil one had entered a discussion he knew absolutely nothing about, made the point that 1.5mm *MICC* is suitable for a normal ring circuit.

These sort of discussions are useful for those who wish to learn how such cable sizes are arrived at.

Nowhere did anyone *recommend* the use of 1.5mm TW&E for a domestic ring circuit. The discussion was whether under certain circumstances it might meet the *requirements* of such a circuit, but not the regulations.

[:::Jerry::::]

Well, if they can't read what is actually said they wouldn't be following anyone's advice, including your simplistic rants and cut & pasting of marketing blurb - OTOH, if they can read what is said they will be more likely to follow the advice of the people you list above than the ramblings of a 'Toy Town' clown like you.

[Andy Wade]

It certainly is, but discussion for its own sake can be fun you know.

I haven't sought to say that actually. I've pointed out that you must use 2.5mm^2 (min.) for a 30/32A ring using PVC cable to comply with BS

7671, regardless of the fact that clipped direct 1.5mm T&E could meet the required 20 A current rating.

No one has been seriously advocating that for PVC cable. It's been noted that 1.5 is allowed for MICC and that's perfectly valid. MICC may not be used very often in houses, but it certainly is used sometimes and may even be quite appropriate for outbuildings, if you can afford it and know how to use it. Dave's conservatory strikes me as a very appropriate application.

I advise people to make up their own mind (and completely ignore the resident kook in the hope that he'll eventually go away).

Jail! What for?

[Doctor Evil]

Do the regs allow 1.5mm cable 20A fused ring mains?

I agree with that. Hopefully Plowman and his dangerous advise, will go away.

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[John Rumm]

*No one* is suggesting that a power ring circuit should be wired in 1.5mm sq PVC cable OTHER than Dr. Drivel. He persists in believing that people are suggesting this, only because it gives him something to argue about.

Dr. Drivel is being castigated because he is seeking to "score points" by attributing claims to others that they have not in fact made. He is also inviting derision for making sweeping statements about circuit design when it is clear the he does not understand many of the subtleties of the process.

Firstly you need to understand the difference between actual advice, and a theoretical discussion. This thread is latter.

Secondly if I were going to take advice on circuit design, I would be more than happy to do so from Andy, since he clearly knows what he is talking about. Whether Dr. Drivel agrees with him or not is of no particular relevance.