In Deep Sh*t....

[Lobster]

About a month ago I started the following thread, asking for help on how to sort out a leaking soil pipe:

http://t > fred wrote:

> Right dave get on with it then ;-) > > Thanks again! Yes I suppose I'd better, hadn't I! I won't be able do > so now until early next week (don't worry, soil pipe is now out of > service!) so stand by for panicked cries for help after I've cut the > pipe and it turns out that all assumptions made were wrong.... ;-)

Well, here I am finally, with panicked cries for help!

The 'steel' soil downpipe has turned out to be copper, extraordinary though that may seem. I cut through it about 3' from the floor, and was able to pull the end out from the busted clay pipe which I cleaned up. However, the OD of the copper pipe is 93mm (ID of the clay pipe it fits into is 95mm), and I cannot find any kwickfit type device to fit it. The PMs I've been to sratch their heads and suggest I rip the whole lot out and replace with modern plastic, which I'd really rather not: would be a lot of work (the pipe goes right up through the first floor and throught the roof.

I need to seal one end of the copper pipe to the clay pipe, and rejoin/seal the other end back to the fixed copper pipe, where I cut it.

I could probably sort out the base by making shuttering around it and filling with lots of mortar - as someone said I should have done in the first place :-( - but that leaves the problem of rejoining the cut ends.

This pipe is internal to the house, and permanently boxed in, so the solution has to be a good one - can't risk leaks or seal failure.

Would be eternally grateful for any ideas! David

[Weatherlawyer]

I'd put another length of clay pipe into the one in the ground and another piece in that to make up the distance, if you can find stuff of the right diameter.

Another way around is to locate a piece of pipe that will do it, from a scrap yard or a metal fabricator's. I am assuming there is no plastic bit that will join the two.

After that it is a matter of aesthetics. Can you hide the bodge with a flower tub or some-such?

Plan C: Run a new length all the way up, outside the house and bring all the interior plumbing out to that. That way you can use modern push fit stuff to replace the lot. A small payback is that you can get rid of the old boxing in later and reclaim some of the bathroom/WC etc.

[dennis]

Do you know anyone that can make good wiped solder joints?

[fred]

In article , Lobster writes

Is it the clay end that you can't get a kwickfit into or a mate for the copper? My soil pipes here (plastic & clay) are 100mm i/d, could a kwickfit for that mate with your 95mm one? The other end is easier as you could use a rubber adaptor to make a joint between plastic & copper. I'm thinking of a kwickfit extension piece along the lines of BES code 12716.

Thanks for the quote btw, all my fault then ;-)

[andrewpreece]

I'm not sure I fully understand your situation, but as one poster has mentioned, you could get a stick of plumber's solder a a greasy rag and make a 'wiped' joint between the two lengths of copper pipe, as long as you can access the pipe easily through 360 degrees.

For the copper pipe to clay, it depends on the situation, but here is an idea that might work. Get a glazed clay pipe-to-plastic adapter ( B&Q, £4.50 ) which connects into the flanged end of the clay pipe by being cemented in position. Then, on the other end of the adapter put a plastic-to-glazed clay pipe adapter (£9). This mimics the large flanged end of a glazed clay pipe. The beauty of that is that the central hole is 100mm, so you can slide your copper pipe down the centre of it, then connect the two by filling the flange with mortar. If you find it hard to visualise, the two adapters I'm talking about will form what is in effect a very short length of glazed clay pipe, only in plastic, and able to be fixed to clay pipes just like it is one. Of course, you have copper at one end, but my soil system outside had a glazed clay pipe joined with mortar direct to a 4" cast iron soil pipe and that was sound for 65 years.

Another adapter that may be of use is the universal waste adapter, which fits plastic fittings on one end, and the other is about 90mm diameter with a rubber multiple flange seal. This could be used to concoct another sort of solution. For instance, it will adapt your clay pipe to plastic, and it will also adapt your copper pipe to plastic in all probability.

Thyere are 100mm rubber cast-iron to plastic adapters etc, but I don't know if they'll shrink to 93mm.

Andy

[Phil]

4" wide lead flashing (not the sticky kind) wrapped once around forming a capillary joint with plumber's solder and a BIG blowtorch applied.

[Rob Morley]

I'd have thought a strip of copper sheet would be a better idea. You're unlikely to be able to form an effective capillary joint, but you could run enough solder down from the top to create a good seal/mechanical joint. As you say, lots of heat required.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I would say dry everything thoroughly and make up joints by wrapping with heavy glass cloth soaked in polyester resin and a leyer of car body filler over the top to seal any microcracks.

Halfords has all the shit you beneed.

[Rob Morley]

Probably considerably cheaper from a scruffy back-street car spares emporium though.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Lobster wrote on 01/08/2005 :

To join up the copper to copper-

1. Clean up both ends carefully down to bare copper and tin them with plumbers flux and solder.
2. get hold of a thin strip of easily bendable copper strip (also cleaned up) and tin this.
3. Wrap the strip tightly around the joint with an overlap, fixed temporarily with Jubilee clips, then heat it adding more solder to fill in all the gaps.

To seal the copper to the base, the morter sounds good, but I would be inclined to suggest-

Flaring the end of the copper pipe first to provide a flat lip - so that you can perhaps fit a thick O ring to provide the primary seal. Then a good thick covering of mortar over the top.

You can flare copper pipe quite easily, if you simply hit it gently with a hammer, on the corner of an anvil - working it a little at a time.