Important Message For the UK electricuity users.... This isn't spam

[mark]

The UK power companies are now installing digital electricity meters in all homes .

These meters read in KVA hours and not kilo watt hours like the old analogue ones used to do .

Means you guys out there with machines with electric motors and ... transformers, inductive devices ,strip lights will now be charged up to

5 times more for using your power....the new digital meters now read that way.

I'm not happy

I phoned up Ampy the maker of this meter.

And they say it DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT POWER FACTOR it reads only in kva hours.

MODEL NUMBER

5235A

British gas my energy provider, say they will not change the meter.

BRITISH GAS SAY THAT EVERYONE WILL HAVE ONE OF THESE METERS INSTALLED WITHIN THE NEXT FEW YEARS

They also say that "ALL" other electricity providers are going down the same route

So therefor you're all going to be in the same boat as me .

IE your overall electricity bills will shoot up 75 percent if you use your machinery in your workshop for a couple of hours a day...domestic

Example I used to use about three units on the old ANALOGUE meter for ...for a couple of hours work in the workshop

This new fangled digital meter now reads 11 units of the same time period .. the new meter isn't faulty ...this guys is the future

I URGE EVERYONE HERE ...WHO HAS ONE OF THESE DIGITAL METERS FITTED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH

ENERGY WATCH

08459 060708

They wont have a clue what you are talking about ...but the more people phone this number ...the more this fraud will sink in with them.

All the best...mark

[Jonathan Schneider]

Then again to some, but only some, extent it is fairer as non-resistive loads do in fact cause power to be wasted in transmission even if not used onsite. And some kit makes nasty harmonics which make other customers' transformers/motors less efficient.

However if you were to attach a capacitor and your neighbour on the same phase an inductor of the same reactance then you would both be charged under the new scheme though the nett effect on the grid would be (ideally) zero.

In the other case your area just has let's say computers with kind of capacitive-ish loading* and no power factor correction. Now you're paying for the damage to the otherwise clean sine wave.

Or you have inductive loads and are causing more loss in the lines than you are paying for. Now things are fairer under the new scheme.

This is (partly) why new legislation requires power factor correction though one could spend a career arguing about the requirements for a particular applicance.

Jon

• Switch mode power supplies start with a full wave rectifier and large capacitor which just might have some power factor stuff in the way.

[Andy Wade]

I don't believe that for a moment.

Don't be silly - even if the meter did read kVAh, there very few loads with power factors as low as 0.2.

I can only imagine that you spoke to someone that didn't understand the question.

Metering is regulated by Ofgem and all meters used for billing have to be certified to a standard (EN 61036). Domestic meters are Class 2 basic accuracy (i.e. ±2%). The accuracy might deteriorate slightly at low power factor, but not anywhere near to the extent where it's measuring kVAh rather than kWh.

Info on a typical modern meter here:

[Jonathan Schneider]

The tech data does say it can optionally register KVAh on reactive models so there could be some truth here.

Jon

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Ampy dont make that model number this is the nearest?

[mark]

These are the facts Andy

Before, over 2 hour period ...I was using 2-3 units over a 1.5 hour to

2 hour session with my machines .

now am using 11 units over the same period

my bills are now =A3300 a quarter rather than 170 of previous.

all the best...mark

[mark]

It's not there web site yet because its new ...that was ampy's explaination .

all the best..mark

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Well if this is the case? I would strongly object to having this meter installed and insist on the conventional meter put back in otherwise hit them with a phone call/Letter to say you're going to switch to another suppliers tarrif.

[Andy Wade]

Where does it say that? The downloadable user manual says that the

2-rate version can be configured to read kVARh (to class 3) as well as kWh (to class 1). This will be for business tariffs where an additional (penalty) charge is made for reactive consumption (kVARh). There's no question of domestic consumers being billed in kVAh.

[Huge]

There's your problem, right there. Do business with thieves, get robbed.

[mark]

this is the conversation i had on the phone the other day with ampy's tech department

"does model 5235a correct for power factor" answer ..".No... it does not "

"why are the details of this model not on your web site" .. answer ...it's too new ...we haven't had chance to list it there yet.

I then explained my situation to the techy ..

he said " looks like out meter is wrong for you, in your situation."

"we don't have a domestic meter for your situation .."

I SAID ...

"what am I to do then ...get them to install the old analogue back in ...

he said something along the lines of ... "yes ...I cant think of any other way" ..

OK I said ...will get in touch with British gas and ask them to swap the meter back ...

British gas refused to swap the meter back ...

and this is why I'm quite upset.

All the best..mark

[Andy Wade]

Hmm, that could be interpreted in more that one way. I'm still incredulous, but as you clearly think there's a problem I suggest you talk to Ofgem.

[Weatherlawyer]

Don't be silly. Every post asking for mass e-mailing of any site is a criminal act amounting to a DDOS. Spread it not.

[mark]

Who said anything about mass emailing

The site i listed is the watchdog site for energy .

You guys are hard to convince when some literate character comes up with figures here to disprove what i have said.

get reading your analogue units now ....and take notes of what amount you are consuming in your workshops

and when you get them changed in the future for these digital units and you end up with sky high bills don't come here complaining , when its too late ...

all the best.....mark

[Jonathan Schneider]

Mark,

If as you say your bill is rocketing, can I suggest you invest in a power meter, assuming of course your kit runs through a 13A plug so that your problem can be quantified. After all just maybe your old meter was broken and under-registering for years. Or just maybe the new one id broken. Does it clock up at the right rate if you put a big resistive load like your kettle or immersion on ?

I bought my meter from Maplin for £12.50 but that was a slightly special price. I think they're normally more like £25. It does VA, A, W, PF, Hz and accumulated kWh.

Jon

[mark]

No my phase converter for my tools is hard wired with 25 amp fuse .

had the mapplin gadget a few years back ...it packed up ... after a week

sent it back ...they said they didn't receive it ...lost my money.

got compensated by the post office for =A315 i think though at the time.

after lots of discussion today in the news groups and on forums on the web ... I'm coming to the conclusion ...that either

my old meter was reading low

or the new meter is reading high and faulty.

and it says on it kilowatt hours

so that info i got from the ampy tech guy was wrong.

will phone British gas tomorrow and ask for a test to be run on it .

all the best...mark

[Andy Wade]

Future...? "Digital" meters ("electronic" might be a better term) have been common for years, round here at least. My Ampy 2-rate meter was fitted in 1998 - it's so old it's got "Property of Eastern Electricity" printed on it.

I recall no significant change in bills when it was fitted. Mind you most of my workshop consumption is for the storage heaters, with a PF very close to unity. The PF for the house must be lower - lots of CFLs and computer equipment.

[John Rumm]

One of the difficulties we have is the "five times" claim. Even if the meter was reading apparent power consumption, I can't imagine any set of tools that would exhibit a power factor of 0.2 (which is what we are talking about for a 5x over reading)

[Andrew Gabriel]

A really large unloaded transformer (such as a 3.5kW 110V construction site transformer) which has been left connected to the mains could be the source of large reactive load of extremely low PF.

[TMC]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the posting

I have just checked my recently fitted meter, we also use British Gas.

My Meter is an Ampey 5224E which says on the front in big writing Multi Rated Watt Hour meter and has a figure of 1000 imp/kwh

It would appear that they may have fitted the wrong meter to your installation

HTH

Tony