IMM fodder

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wrote:

.andy
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Seemed like the sadly inevitable conclusion from the day the inquiry was announced. Given that Gavyn Davis has fallen on his sword and taken responsibility for the failings of those beneath him (though as a NuLab supporter, he'll probably get some honour soon enought), I guess it would be too much to hope that Hoon would do the same.
Worst of all, it distracts attention from the shambolic and down-right corrupt vote last night.
Disgusted of Barnsley
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You surely don't mean that you'd prefer Our Glorious Leader to be lopped?
No chance, mate. A rose-scented eel if ever there was one.
Mary
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:56:09 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

Pass the frying-pan and onions :-))
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:08:45 GMT, "Clive Summerfield"

He certainly doesn't need the salary.......

Houdini more like.......

Dirt as well as blood on their hands........

.andy
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Andy Hall wrote:

Is it just me or did the country enter a bizzare twilight-zone like reality sometime during the past 2-3 years? So little seems to make sense any more.
--
Grunff

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It reminds me of those BBC dramas from the 70s, set in a Britain which has become either a fascist police state, or some oppressive socialist nightmare of incompetance. Described at the time as classic examples of the fears and insecurities of the British middle classes. Looks like they've come true.
Cheers Clive
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No it isn't.
It's one thing being an MP and being caught with fingers in the till or wearing underwear generally suited to the opposite sex and having to resign, but at some point in the last few years a whole new level of dishonesty with denial has come into being, one which is quite unpleasant.
I would have said that it was like crossing the Rubikon, except that there was no obvious defining moment.
It reminds me much more of a famous line in C.S. Lewis's "The Screwtape Letters" :
Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts,
Your affectionate uncle SCREWTAPE
.andy
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True. Think it really started with the Thatcher woman lying through her teeth about the sinking of the Belgrano.
--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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Dave Plowman wrote:

No, its alays been that way, but the decorum has got worse, and the sense of public obligation is now almost completely absent.
And the intelligence level is in terminal decline.
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--
geoff

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geoff wrote:

Not long to go though....
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wrote:

.andy
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message

PTFE, when heated, emits toxic fumes. Is that what you meant?
--
Andy



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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:47:44 -0000, "Andy Wade"

The evidence would seem to support that in this case......
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On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:52:32 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman

Whether the Belgrano sinking was right or wrong, it took place at a time when war had been announced between two nations.
War was never announced for Iraq (AFAIK), and I never saw the justification for sending our troops into harms way without being properly equipped.
PoP
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So how does this affect Thatcher lying? Many would have been quite happy if she'd just said "It's a war - shit happens".

I'd certainly second that - properly equipped or not. But I wonder if the population as a whole would agree?
FWIW, wasn't there a desperate problem with footware and rifles in the Falklands war?
--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

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PoP wrote:

IIRC war was never declared over the Falklands - hence why it was always the Falklands "conflict" and we never struck directly at air bases etc on Argentine soil.
Having said that I am not too bothered about the Belgrano - sail a military ship in and out of an exclusion zone during a conflict and you have to be asking for trouble.
(Trivia for those that have not heard it before: The General Belgrano was bought by Argentina from the US. It used to be called the USS Phoenix, and as such was famous for being one of the few ships in Pearl Harbour to survive the attack in 1941 - guess its luck had to run out one day!)
--
Cheers,

John.

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On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:45:14 +0000, John Rumm

You may be right.

Spot on. During my HP career I visited Northwood one time, and was taken into the depths of the place - it's like a tower block built upside down, you go in at the top and proceed downwards. It's where the UK navy is controlled from (AIUI). Able to withstand anything but a direct nuclear hit.
Anyway, I digress. The story I'm familiar with is that Belgrano had presented a bit of a problem by sailing close to the exclusion zone and was being tracked by submarine HMS Conqueror. Conqueror reported back to Northwood, signal immediately escalated to 10 Downing Street and the order was taken at Prime Minister level to take the ship out. Although the turnaround time was relatively short in this message sequence it appears that Belgrano had turned around away from the conflict zone and was heading towards safety.
I understand the purpose of engaging Belgrano like this was to show the argies that the UK meant business. Remember that after Belgrano went down no other argie ships came out of port.
PoP
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Makes absolutely no difference to the fact that Thatcher lied about it. Same as Blair lying about those 'weapons of mass distruction'. They'd both have earned more respect by simply telling the truth - that they were said or done for propaganda reasons.
--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

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