Ice road truckers

[dennis]

IIRC jumbos flying over the arctic have to check the fuel temp periodically and turn back if its too cold. They pre heat the fuel on loading if its very cold.

[Dave Liquorice]

successfully

But jet engines don't run on diesel they run on kerosene, which is much thinner in the first place (28sec v 35sec) and is added to diesel to keep the wax that causes the problems in solution...

Wouldn't have though that would have made much difference after a few hours of flight with outside temps around -40C at 30 odd thousand feet. Might make a difference in starting on the ground when it's cold through.

[JimK]

aha - don't suppose you know of a decent Newage gearbox resource ? workshop manual, spares at reasonable prices etc? just a thought cheers JimK

[GB]

I've foolishly set fire to my truck. Could I have a new one please?

[Bill]

I don't think I'll be much help. The air cooled engine had a centrifugal clutch and no gearbox. I replaced it because I became worried about the large exposed heavy clutch rotating at speed near the bottom of the boat. I rebuilt the water cooled Petter. The engine parts - piston, valves etc. came off the shelves of a vehicle engine repairer in Liverpool - and were standard parts. The designer told me that the gearbox that came with the engine was sourced by Petter from America and that losses in the gearbox were the reason for the relatively poor performance of that engine. Some of the delicate copper pipework was from a medical supply house, and the galvanised plumbing for water cooled exhaust was from B&Q or equivalent. My local marine engine supplier was never cheap and has recently vanished from the scene. I've had to buy some heat exchanger parts recently for the Vetus/Mitsubishi and had to pay over twice what I paid for the engine + Hurth gearbox for just one small casting.

The failed projects in the shed include the Reliant Robin gearbox marine conversion I never did, the FNR gearbox from a tipper truck and a slightly bent gearbox from a Morris Commander marine engine. I really must put some of this junk on ebay or freecycle. I often wonder how the freecycle guy is getting on with the "build one good one" 2 Enfield air cooled diesels I gave him......

[Steve Walker]

Didn't the Germans used to put petrol in the engine oil of their Messerschmitts during the cold Russian winter? The petrol would thin the oil so they could start the engines and then as they warmed up, the petrol would boil off.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Flying ones do yes :) On the other hand, RB211s sat on North Sea rigs to drive generators run on diesel for startup and until production is underway, then switch to running on natural gas. ISTR we were putting 120 litres a minute through during testing of each of Shell Gannet's generators (11kV, 3-ph, 60Hz, 24.5MW).

SteveW

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Peter Parry saying something like:

Eh? What drivel is that, now?

[Dave]

In 24 years of working with aircraft, I never saw or heard of an aircraft engine that would not start in cold weather.

If the wind was blowing up the exhaust of the engine, you could have a problem lighting that little candle in the middle if the engine though. The solution was to hold a large board over the exhaust until you felt it being blown backwards and then duck and walk sideways away.

Dave

[Jules]

Albeit pistons, you reminded me of this one that I stumbled upon the other week:

a little reluctant at first, but makes it in the end :)

[js.b1]

Pour point of a typical polyolefin synthetic is about -50oC so no problem re engine sump oil (Mobil 1). However the big truck companies may not use it; most do oil changes based on oil analysis & the engine is kept running so it is the hourly-figure that counts making dead- dino oil cheaper.

I recall ice-truckers using a propane space heater to heat transmission oil, so they probably use non-synth throughout. Bet that makes shifting fun on a cold box.

USA-side used to get Mobil 1 for about 3$/quart (0.945L or some such) whereas we pay about =A310/quart. The benefit for conventional motorists is having one oil change per year in place of two (those having tiny

[js.b1]

Truck engines are basically power & bearings, emissions are a pain - but not quite odious. GM, Ford, Chrysler used "truck classification" to ease past fuel economy & emissions restrictions compared to passenger cars. The long term problem is electric trucks are almost impossible - except when called freight trains :-)

[Andy Champ]

I bought my father a DVD about the DH Venom , which has one of the early jets, for Christmas. It has a start sequence in it. it seems they only have igniters in two of the combustion chambers, so the start sequence throws quite a lot of unburned fuel vapour out. Which is then ignited by the live chambers.

Filmed from the rear. Not straight rear...

Much more spectacular than the little boat diesel I had to fire up on Sunday. Hadn't been touched for at least a fortnight, it was kind of reluctant.

Andy

[Jules]

Aha, reminded me of this one, featuring a RR Derwent:

good stuff at around 4:40. Even when they get it to start sucessfully, it seems to pour a lot of fuel out of the exhaust and then 'catch' on only some of the chambers.

Nice :) I'm looking forward to firing our ancient truck up next spring once the weather eases off a bit (no brake servo, drums all round, and only 2wd so it's a bit suicidal to use in the winter here) - it'll be fun getting it to cough back into life again.

cheers

Jules

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Steve Walker saying something like:

The tanks, too.

[Martin Bonner]

I don't understand their business model, but it seems that American truck engines come with a life-time parts and labo[u]r warranty - and the engines failing to withstand SOP like lighting a bonfire underneath is covered.

[Appin]

The message from Grimly Curmudgeon contains these words:

In those parts every sump has a sump heater and batteries have either a heated pad underneath them or a heated blanket around them. Both normally powered by mains voltage. In cities like Winnipeg in Canada even the parking meters have power connections so that you can plug in your car's sump and battery heaters when you park your car. There's normally a trailing plug coming through the radiator grille. No chance of a battery working at -30 degrees Celsius.

[Jules]

Yes - or a block heater (sump for warming oil, block for warming coolant). Sump heaters which just attach magnetically are cheap and pretty common around here (not much use if you have a plastic sump ;)

That's wrong in my experience; we get *lots* of winter days where it's that cold here and have never had a problem. Further north though and I expect it could be down to -50...

[Clive George]

Lada manuals told you to turn the headlamps on prior to starting the car if it was very cold in order to warm the battery up enough to provide juice for the starter motor.

[Jules]

Funny thing is, I've always done that. It's a habit I've always had, and I have a feeling it derives from kid logic - even as a boy I could appreciate that turning a car engine over took a lot of juice, so my kid-theory went that turning everything non-essential off would be helpful.

Of course in practice it makes no difference except possibly in some very extreme situations, but it's a habit that I just can't seem to shake :-)

cheers

J.