I LOVE Speedfit!

[IMM]

No so. two separate companies and systems.

In B&Qs they stock Speedfit and Polyplumb. In B&Q Warehouses they also stock Equator. I find Equator well priced.

[David W.E. Roberts]

I think quite a few respondents are losing sight of the DIY aspect of all this. For DIY read - "some people only do this once every year or so - or perhaps only once".

I appreciate that copper is much cheaper, and that the basic 'end feed' joints can be picked up by the bag full at plumbers merchants for very little money. They are simple in construction, neat in appearance, and virtually all professional plumbers use them. For a professional, the cost saving over a job is considerable and a good soldered joint should last 100 years. Once mastered (!) the technique becomes second nature.

However for the DIY person ease of use can justify a premium cost, especially if only a few units are used. As discussed in this thread, successful soldering depends on care, careful preparation, and a learned technique to get the heating of the joint just right. In certain circumstances (such as soldering under the floorboards next to joists) there is the additional risk of fire, so you have to take extra precautions. Finally you are dealing with (ouch!) heat above water boiling point. It also involves quite a bit of extra work in the situation when you realise that you haven't put the pipe work quite where it should go (or realised you should have put something else in first). Or if it turns out that your joint wasn't as good as you thought it was. If you have already filled the pipes with water your problems can be compounded by having to dry everything out first. I value the ability to quickly un-pipe runs and then re-fit them.

So I think we are getting a little at cross purposes. End feed copper is cheap and proven by time, and I would suspect will still be around in another 50 years. The professionals choice. As mentioned elsewhere, when compression joints first came in the traditionalists predicted dire problems but now they are accepted. I expect that there will be more and more use of push fit joints, especially around units such as power shower pumps, where ease and speed of fitting justifies the higher component cost. Perhaps one day your average plumber will appear with a length of plastic pipe and a pair of snips and the smell of hot flux and solder will be gone forever. [O.K. I know boilers need copper close to them :-) Grant me a little poetic license.]

If cost is the overriding factor then take the time to learn to use soldered copper. It is a useful technique anyway for visible joints you wish to be unobtrusive. For dedicated DIYers the technique can be as important as the end result. However if you are doing your first (and perhaps only) plumbing job then push fit joints could save you a lot of grief.

What prompted the original post? I had just put together a run of four pipes which all go round one corner of the bathroom. There is a little 'nexus' with six elbow joints in a very small area. With Speedfit I just fitted whichever suited and then threaded additional pipes under/round/over the first one. Just a push, and a leak free joint. I thought 'damn, that was so easy'. And reflected on my previous forays into plumbing over the last 30 years. Which led me to the conclusion "I LOVE Speedfit!"

This is an expression of a personal view, does not denigrate the use of other technologies, and freely acknowledges the right of all thinking beings to use the plumbing techniques of their choice :-))

Thanks again for all the responses.

Cheers Dave R

[IMM]

Some developers are experiencing far too many call backs on leaks. Some leaks are intermittent in that they leak when hot and re-seal when cool.

[David W.E. Roberts]

Well, yes, that is me all right :-)

[David W.E. Roberts]

Yep - forgot to mention that I fell in love with plastic pipe first. I had a piece of copper fail with mains cold water.

[I am told there was a very bad batch of copper many years back and this resulted in copper pipes corroding and starting to leak. We had a batch of this in our house and had several runs (including some plastered into the walls) which developed pinhole leaks which incidentally are a b*gger to trace. Had most of it replaced under the insurance, including a new plastic water main (think we may have paid for that bit).]

Our main bathroom is quite small and when we had it redone we had a four piece suite fitted - a 'funiture unit' with toilet, WHB and bidet, and a seriously solid bath. The failed pipe was under this 'furniture unit' and bath and was sending a fine spray of water everywhere. Brought down a bit of the downstairs toilet ceiling. The bathroom is over our downstairs loo and the front porch. I investigated and found that because the bathroom suite had to be 'shoehorned' in the furniture unit had been fitted first, then the bath. To get out this unit I would first have to remove the bath which was all nicely tiled in - in effect I would have to gut the bathroom.

Solution - get at one end of the pipe through the ceiling which had come down, and cut it out. [This was me coming up under the bath from the floor below.] Remove the other end from the cold tap in the bathroom. Leave the pipe 'in situ' because of bends etc. preventing removal. Thread bendy white plastic pipe through the maze of other pipes and fit to bathroom sink. Connect to main cold water above downstairs toilet.

I didn't replace the bit of ceiling - fitted a wooden panel instead so I could get at the pipes in future if required!

So the bendiness of plastic is both a problem and in some cases a distinct advantage!

On reflection we should have got it done on the insurance but you don't always remember this when the downstairs loo is full of damp plaster!

Still, when the rest of the pipes went, we had that done on the insurance.

Ah, memories. Dave R

P.S. Your house too could be full of low quality ageing copper pipe which is corroding through. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I have no idea how you identify this stuff before it goes, though :-(

[Dave Plowman]

In article , stuart noble >especially when say you can't see the back of the fitting. Oh, and end

The chances of this *really are* slim if you do it properly.

You drain down in the normal way, and simply unsolder by heating it. If it were at the bottom of a loop with water lying in it this wouldn't be possible, but then you shouldn't have such a loop anyway. But if you had, you'd simply cut if off with a pipe cutter, and extend the pipe to fit when re-making. Let's face it, pipe and end feed fittings are so cheap you don't have to worry.

Know what you mean, but there's far more chance of a leak with a compression fitting as it's susceptible to mechanical damage - a bad scratch or whatever - that solder would easily fill.

[IMM]

It was mainly cheap Eastern European stuff. You got what you paid for as it was cheap. Who is to say there will not be a bad batch of plastic? Someone didn't set the control right for the right mix of plastic? I have never had copper pipe fail on me. I have only overheard rare stories from others.

[IMM]

Are they sold by Speedfit?

[Andrew McKay]

Stop! Wait a minute mister Post-man....wait a minute, wait a minute, mister post-ost-ost-ost-ost-man......

;)

Never as good as the originals.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our web site at

[Grunff]

No, but they are sold by B&Q and many plumbers merchants, and very often shelved with the SpeedFit range.

Having said that, ScrewFix are now listing the tank connector under the SpeedFit range, so presumably those ones are SpeedFit.

[froggers]

The Hepworth engineer went to Marley and evolved Equator.....

Nick

[Essjay001]

You obviously the same progs as me. Steve R

-- "Latest gear:- One piece one button suit extremely comfortable, perfect for Relaxation, Sports, Hiking, Swimming, a must have" OOPS sorry you have one!!!

[IMM]

Maybe, but still two separate systems and companies. He obviously designed out the bulkiness of Hep2o, as Equator is much smaller and neater.

[IMM]

[Andy Hall]

Is that its only claim to fame?

I quite like the features that Speedfit has of the option of a pipe insert with an extra O-ring seal and the twist-lock ring. The pipe insert is also said to enable the joint to be stabilised against any sideways forces which might happen if the pipe is being fed through an awkward place. The twist lock is in addition to the normal metal mechanical securing method. It appears that Equator, from the data sheets at least, is similar technology to Hep2o.

As far as appearance is concerned, Speedfit strikes me as a bit less lumpy in appearance than Hep2o. However, none of the plastic solutions would win £10 in the Monopoly beauty contest, would they?

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Essjay001]

Er sorry I say that again. You obviously don't watch the same progs as me.

-- Steve R

-- "Latest gear:- One piece one button suit extremely comfortable, perfect for Relaxation, Sports, Hiking, Swimming, a must have" OOPS sorry you have one!!!

[IMM]

Yes.

[Colin Swan]

My 1930s semi had a Servowarm system fitted when there was a shortage of copper, and it was done in steel. Some of it has now been replaced with copper as we have moved stuff around, and I was pleased to see that the bits of steel pipe cut off appear to be in pretty good condition. I had been told that it *will* fail, and that any plumber brave enough to try adding to it will have great difficulty and end up replacing most of it. Thankfully, this appears to not be the case, but I keep an eye on it anyway.

Regards,

Colin Swan Nildram Operations

[Dave Plowman]

Iron barrel was used for piping water and gas before copper became common. With a central heating system there should be no air in the water, so no corrosion. But an inhibitor would stop this anyway.

Its modern equivalent is electrical conduit so the skills to form it etc still exist, although not, I'd guess, with the average plumber.

[John]

Dave, I think you are unfamiliar with the steel pipe which was used as a get-you-by for a while. This is thin wall stuff (about 1mm or less) with the same dimensions as copper so it could be fitted using the same fittings both compression and soldered. Some is still around in reasonably well protected systems which have been kept up to strength with corrosion inhibitors but some alas is suffering from the effects of corrosion and is failing. Corroded pipe is a bitch to try to connect to and it is better to rip it out and replace wherever possible. Perhaps the stuff you are thinking of is good old fashioned thick wall steel pipe jointed by screwing or welding? About the same time a lot of continental copper pipe was imported to overcome the shortages but which seems to have had particles of some corrodible metal in it. Over the years these have corroded away and formed pinholes. The trade used it in good faith and found out afterwards what crap it really was. Some lengths had one particle in them somewhere and some lengths have revealed a great number of them which produces, eventually, something akin to a watering can spreader bar for putting weedkiller on the lawn!