I LOVE Speedfit!

Just thought I would re-iterate my love for Speedfit.

I can't solder to save my life, despite years of trying. I have made many successful soldered joints. However I have made at least the same number of unsuccessful ones, and they are generally a b*ggger to fix once the water has been turned on and off again.

I was using compression joints prior to discovering Speedfit. . I have just fitted a few compression joints in an area where I wanted to use copper because it is stronger than plastic and I wanted it to be self supporting. [Also I had run out of Speedfit joints and had some legacy compression joints] It all worked, but took ages, plus two spanners and a load of PTFE tape. One joint leaked a little, but was cured by undoing and re-fitting with extra PTFE round the thread plus some PTFE round the olive.

Compare this to Speedfit:

Snip pipe Insert ends Push into joints Job done, no leaks.

Our old plumber, with his trusty blow lamp and moleskin for sweating lead pipes (done that too, a couple of times) may be turning in his grave.

However, let us lift a brimming glass to John Guest and Speedfit - saviours of the marginally incompetent!

Cheers Dave R

Reply to
David W.E. Roberts
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In article , David W.E. Roberts writes

I found that using PTFE tape on compression joints makes them leak more rather than less, so I stopped using it. Subsequently I have got into soldering instead.

Reply to
Tim Mitchell

There's really no reason to put PTFE or any goop on compression joints - it's a metal/metal seal.

Reply to
Grunff

Then you must be doing something awfully wrong - it's hardly rocket science and only takes minutes to master.

So did you ever wonder what was the difference?

I've only ever had one joint leak out of hundreds, and that turned out to be a faulty end feed fitting - it had a pin hole in it.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

Marley make a better system. If you are kak handed and can't solder, then try using cheap copper pipe and brass push-fit fitting. Cheaper to install than using all Speedfit. What is it? Speedfit are now in another fitting re-design and Hep2O in about the 3rd or 4th. Plastic is no panacea get that clear.

Reply to
IMM

Bear in mind that this is a personal opinion. You find it easy. I don't.

No, no mate - never gave it a thought. Didn't even consider I might be doing it wrong.

WOW! Flash of inspiration.

Hey - why don't you get a job as a motivational speaker. I bet you'd wow the crowds with your deep insights!

Reply to
David W.E. Roberts

Yep - tried that - always used the trusty wire wool and then flux. My problem was I could never get the heating quite right. I tried various high and low heat nozzles on my Gaz blow lamp, but to no avail. Heating the pipe near the joint, heating the joint, heating away from the joint for a slower raise in temperature. There seemed to be about a microsecond between no solder and the 'spifzz' as the ring of solder spat out of the yorkshire joint.

Usually ended up tinning the end of the copper pipe with solder and then easing gently in. Used a load of solder but usually worked in the end.

As you say, those that leaked were often easier to replace with compression.

After a while I decided that the general trauma of trying to solder plus the time wasted justified using compression joints for everything.

I also found it much easier to dis-assemble and re-assemble compression fittings.

Now I have started using the push fit joints and they seem so far ahead of compresssion joints that they will be my joint of choice in future (until/unless various dire predictions on this thread come to pass).

Thanks Dave R

Reply to
David W.E. Roberts

Push-fit are no match for compressions joints. There is some junk out there. but a good quality compression fitting will last eons. It is a firm well made joint of metal to metal. 50-60 years ago people were saying the same about compression that you are saying about push-fit, in praising their cold fitting ease of use, speed in installation, etc, but reservations over longevity and high fitting cost. Over the 60 years that compression has become widespread they have been proven a success....and cheaper than push-fit. Let's see if many push-fit fitting are still around in 60 years time.

Reply to
IMM

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in news:bge37g$nmvse$ snipped-for-privacy@ID-122774.news.uni-berlin.de:

You may have missed one essential - apologies if you haven't - and that is to make sure the end of the run is open to the air.

If there's a tap or valve, make sure it's open, if not the expanding air due to heat will blow out the joint.

You can also tlerate some water not too close if there is no chance for a pressure build up

HTH

mike r

Reply to
Mike Ring

Speedfit has its advantages, but under floor boards I would still rather have a soldered joint. Mind you, I wouldn't trust compression fittings under boards either. I love speedfit as well but last year I used some 22mm speedfit tank connectors and the pipes kept leaking unless the pipe was totally square to the fitting. After much headache I ended up having to use compression fittings. I'm going to be running some speedfit in a couple of bathrooms soon but am going to make sure that any connections are not boxed in. Another thing that concerns me is the super seal pipe insert with the extra rubber seal - why is this needed if the normal connection is so good?

Reply to
StealthUK

Do you mean the grey tank connectors?

I used JG SpeedFit throughout my house, and had no leaks at all, except from the tank connector - which *wasn't made by JG* - they are made by someone else, and they are truly crap. The O-ring is nearly a mm too big (and no, they aren't sold as imperial connectors).

Reply to
Grunff

This is basically as originally posted uk.d-i-y on 13/06/1996, with spelling corrections, and incorporating comments from the original thread. See thread snipped-for-privacy@news.demon.co.uk. The original subject (complete with spelling error) was "Capilliary fittings - how to solder successfully (LONG)"

This time the post is prompted by David W.E. Roberts who wrote on Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:38:47 +0100 re "I LOVE Speedfit!" in message bgdjg8$nusf2$ snipped-for-privacy@ID-122774.news.uni-berlin.de

Capillary Fittings - How to Solder them Successfully (Version 2) ----------------------------------------------------------------

Capillary Fittings are used for joining copper pipes with solder. There are two basic types, with and without a pre-formed solder ring inside them. Those with the solder ring are usually referred to as Yorkshire, after the original manufacturer. Those without it are called end-feed, because you have to supply the solder by feeding it in between the end of the fitting and the pipe.

The follow> I've just, unsuccessfully, tried to use a capillary fitting on a

These things don't need THAT much heat.

The fitting MUST be bone dry and so must the inside of the tube for AT LEAST 12" from the joint. If there is ANY water lying in the pipe, or dripping from above, you WILL NOT be able to solder it. Get rid of the water, use a compression joint, or try that brilliant idea with the bread. If there is no water flow you can dry out this 12" length with the flame until steam stops appearing.

You MUST remove all traces of copper oxide from the mating surfaces with wire-wool. Yes wire wool. Emery paper will NOT work, it reacts with the copper in some way, neither will a file. Well, that's my experience - others tell me that wet-and-dry paper works fine. Others say Scotchbrite works. You can SOMETIMES get away without wire-wooling the INSIDE of the fitting but its not worth omitting it because of the hassle of reworking when it fails :-(. My little finger is just small enough to go into a

15mm capillary with a bit of wire-wool wrapped round it. Just one 360 degree wipe does the trick.

Some people swear by the use of acid fluxes which are said to avoid the need for this thorough cleaning. I have not tried them myself.

Having cleaned BOTH parts you must lightly smear BOTH with flux. As well as letting the solder flow this helps transfer heat between the parts.

Do NOT OVERHEAT. If the solder ring does not appear before the flame goes green something has gone wrong. Further heat will just distort the parts and can prevent you getting them apart without wrecking something.

You are not supposed to need to add any extra solder but I most always use extra solder to 'help' the solder ring to flow nicely. I use wire solder from a reel, not the stuff in a solid bar.

WIPE off any external flux while still hot. This is easy to do but plumbers never seem to bother. It eventually makes a green mess if you leave it.

INSPECT the finished joint when cool to be sure the solder flowed all round - otherwise you might have a leak. Visual inspection is final the secret of good joints. If you cannot see a thin silver ring of solder all around the jointed edge, there is something wrong.

If you want to solder the fitting to only one pipe leaving the other connections till later, you MUST put a short length of UNCLEANED and UNFLUXED tube in the other outlet(s) and make sure you use just enough heat to flow the solder, and keep the heat away from the other ends. A damp rag wrapped around the dummy stub will keep it cool if necessary The idea is to be SURE the solder ring does not melt on that end. When it's cool you can remove the dummy and the inner solder ring should be intact.

Other tips:-

Make sure the pipe is cut square. Don't use a hacksaw, invest a fiver in a pipe cutter tools which will make a square cut and with less effort.

Solder tends to run towards the heat, even uphill (a bit). So when you solder a vertical tube coming upwards out of a fitting, get the pipe hot before playing the flame on the fitting.

Always keep the heat even, i.e. move the flame all around the joint (or at least heat a bit one side then the other).

Use a metal sheet to protect nearby materials, or an asbestos gauze sheet obtainable from plumbers merchants for this purpose. Aluminium cooking foil, wet rags or wet tissues have been used, too.

Be VERY careful when aiming the flame downwards between floorboards etc. Dry wood ignites easily.

Use gloves to handle hot parts (ouch).

Cleaning surplus solder from parts: Heat until the solder melts, tap the part on the bench edge to jolt the molten solder out, then WIPE the surplus off with a DRY cloth. For cleaning off internal parts, attach cloth to a wire and pull it through the component after heating to melt solder.

Think about future modifications or repair to the system. You WILL NOT be able to unsolder the joint if it is in a leg of pipe from which the water cannot be drained. Consider using a compression joint, or a drain c*ck, at a strategic place to allow dead legs to be drained. Otherwise you have to cut the pipe.

Don't reuse old central heating tube on drinking water circuits - it tastes foul.

Do make a practice assembly of all parts before solder> I gave up using Yorkshires (solder ring) years ago. Endex are much cheaper and

Andrew, I do agree, and all I said above also applies to end-feed fittings (which have no pre-applied solder ring inside). You just need to be even more rigorous to follow the advice, plus thoroughly wire-wool the inside of the fitting, and of course feed in solder wire which has been dipped in the flux tin.

More tips:

Practice with Yorkshires till you have the knack then try end-feeds. As Andrew says, they are much cheaper. Use Yorkshire for that awkward situation where the end-fed solder would have to go seriously uphill, e.g. the fitting at the top of a vertical pipe.

A good joint has a convex meniscus ring of solder visible all around the joint. If you don't see it, re-read the advice and start again.

-- Phil Addison The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at

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Reply to
Phil Addison

Mike, good point, thanks, but my soldering incompetence is far more generalised :-) Cheers Dave R

Reply to
David W.E. Roberts

Be that as it may some people can't solder.

Reply to
Essjay001

If plastic pipe is good enough for Steve & Norm its good enough for me.

Reply to
Essjay001

I found the key issue was preparing the solder joint, which means liberal use of wire wool on the pipe to be soldered, followed by a smidgen of flux before bringing the joint together.

Any residual dirt on the pipe invariably leads to a poor joint.

I prefer the pre-soldered elbows though.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our web site at

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Reply to
Andrew McKay

Well, surely this group should try to help those overcome their difficulties? I really don't believe *any* DIYer is incapable of learning how to do it correctly.

Of course, it could be they prefer to plug an inferior product for whatever reason.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

While proper cleaning is a good idea, the use of an aggressive flux is belt and braces. I've tried experimenting soldering green copper using this stuff, and it made a perfect joint.

I don't think they're worth the considerable additional cost. Moreover, with separate solder you're in no doubt when it melts, especially when say you can't see the back of the fitting. Oh, and end feed are neater looking.

Reply to
Dave Plowman

Of the systems widely available I settled on Hep20 which I believe became Marley Equator. I didn't feel that others were quite as well engineered - recently in the local B and Q the (independent) plumber bloke in there said B and Q have now apparently classified Equator as the top quality although they also stock Speedfit and the copper pushfit range as well.

Of the problems I have had (almost none) was some plastic swarf over the o ring in a fitting which dripped once every 10 minutes and joints where the pipes was so badly and deeply scored that I couldn't believe would have a chance of sealing and all but two did - very impressed overall

Nick

Reply to
froggers

But what do you do if a soldered joint does leak? How do you dry it out etc? Can you unsolder a joint by re-heating it? My pessimism in regard to my own joints is such that I just assume I'll have to re-do all of them at least twice, which is why I'm more comfortable with compression fittings. Actually, most of them are spot on first time but anxiety's a funny thing.

Reply to
stuart noble

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