I don't need an RCD !

[sm_jamieson]

I've just realised that my kitchen "appliance" radial circuit (4mm TWE) doe= s not need an RCD ! It is surface mounted through the undertairs cupboards, visible until at le= ast 50mm inside the ceiling, then surface wired all the way to the sockets = behind or in the cabinets. The circuit will have sockets for gas hob, cooker hood, washing machine and= waste disposal unit (we dont have a dish washer). The washing machine sock= et will be under the sink but at the top front to keep it away from the wat= er. The other sockes will be at the top back of the cabinets. None of these sockets are likely to be used for outside power - there is an= exterior socket available.

I have wired a dedicated non-RCD circuit for the fridge. Question is, do I forget this and save a space in the CU ?

Simon.

[dennis]

If you have already done it why change?

[John Rumm]

not need an RCD !

50mm inside the ceiling, then surface wired all the way to the sockets behind or in the cabinets.

waste disposal unit (we dont have a dish washer). The washing machine socket will be under the sink but at the top front to keep it away from the water. The other sockes will be at the top back of the cabinets.

exterior socket available.

Since you already have it, is there any point changing it? If you later need the space in the CU, then you can alter things...

[Andrew Gabriel]

not need an RCD !

50mm inside the ceiling, then surface wired all the way to the sockets behind or in the cabinets.

waste disposal unit (we dont have a dish washer). The washing machine socket will be under the sink but at the top front to keep it away from the water. The other sockes will be at the top back of the cabinets.

exterior socket available.

If it's only used for fixed/stationary appliances, then that's OK.

If it's also used for portable worktop appliances (kettle, toaster, etc), then I would strongly suggest you do RCD protect it. RCD protection is mostly for the added safety of portable appliances.

I haven't done a kitchen since 17th Edition came out, but I normally did kitchens with 2 socket outlet circuits:

Not RCD protected (with sockets positioned to be not easily accessible): For items which you don't want sharing an RCD (fridge, freezer, frost protection (central heating), life support (fish tank, but using own dedicated RCD); Fixed/stationary items which can generate leakage without being faulty (electric oven).

RCD protected: All accessible socket outlets, e.g. worktop, walls. All portable appliances.

[sm_jamieson]

does not need an RCD !

t least 50mm inside the ceiling, then surface wired all the way to the sock= ets behind or in the cabinets.

and waste disposal unit (we dont have a dish washer). The washing machine = socket will be under the sink but at the top front to keep it away from the= water. The other sockes will be at the top back of the cabinets.

s an exterior socket available.

Yep, it was just a question of whether to RCD the fixed appliance radial an= d put the fridge freezer on its own non-RCD circuit, or make the radial non=

-RCD and include the fridge freezer on it. The sockets in the base units need to be faily accessible since they are th= e method of isolation as well ! I think its been established previously that a fitted kitchen is part of th= e "building fabric" (although *most* of the cabinet sockets will be fixed t= o the rear wall with a cutout in the cabinet), and that an accessible unswi= tched plug is a suitable method of isolation. Cheers, Simon.

[ARWadsworth]

I belive that the only thing than Simon needs to do to comply with the 17th is to label the socket so that they become "dedicated sockets". As always some common sense is needed. A dedicated but easily accessible fridge socket by the back door would not be allowed.

[NT]

E) does not need an RCD !

at least 50mm inside the ceiling, then surface wired all the way to the so= ckets behind or in the cabinets.

ne and waste disposal unit (we dont have a dish washer). The washing machin= e socket will be under the sink but at the top front to keep it away from t= he water. The other sockes will be at the top back of the cabinets.

is an exterior socket available.

and put the fridge freezer on its own non-RCD circuit, or make the radial n= on-RCD and include the fridge freezer on it.

the method of isolation as well !

the "building fabric" (although *most* of the cabinet sockets will be fixed= to the rear wall with a cutout in the cabinet), and that an accessible uns= witched plug is a suitable method of isolation.

If you run cable you may as well run one more with it. Cable's cheap, work and disruption less so. Then you can do what you like both now and later. Its going to be there for 40 years or so, during which time regs will change.

NT

[Adam Funk]

You mean write "FRIDGE" on the socket with a Sharpie?

[ARWadsworth]

Biro.

[ARWadsworth]

It is. But Simon's setup meets the requirements for no RCD protection

?title=Safe_zones_for_electric_cables> (In any case, I would want RCD protection on all the sockets over the

The wiki needs updating. Neither of those pages mention the RCD rule for sockets.

[Andrew Gabriel]

The main claimed reason for the change was to prevent electrocution of those who drill into cables. However, the incidence of this was pretty insignificant (it was two cases in something like 8 years). It was driven by the manufacturers to sell more RCDs, and sadly that's how much of the wiring regs are driven nowadays.

However, the main purpose of [30mA] RCDs is as I said, protection of electrocution from portable appliances. Other benefits pale into insignificance in comparison with that one.

[NT]

There's also fires due to L-E current, which RCDs trip on.

NT

[ARWadsworth]

which working RCDs trip on.