I feel sure this must be in the FAQ somewhere, or in the archives, but I can't find the answer...
I have an Ikea light (a LEDING its called) that I need to fit to a cieling rose. There are two sets of wires in the ceiling: one I assume is the switch, the other the mains (each have L/N/E wires).
The light fitting has three wires L/N/E, and that's it. No block like you normally get with friendly labels on.
So, my question is: what wires do I fit where? I assume the earths all go to the same place, but what about the rest?
I think part of the answer is going to involve finding which cable is the switch so I can wire the switch return correctly, but after that, I'm stuck
OK. Here's the ugly way to do it - but if you do get tired of the light and want to switch back to an ordinary pendant later (or grow so attached you want to take the new fitting to a new house) you'll thank me for it: - leave the ceiling rose in place - mount the IKEA fitting to the ceiling close by - run the existing pendant cable, or a short length of new cable (heat-resistant if you can lay your hands on some) to the new fitting.
This way you haven't monkeyed with the fixed wiring at all.
OK. If you want to make the new connections "inside" the new fitting, your job is basically to faithfully replicate the pattern of connections inside the existing rose. So, label the wires of the existing cables carefully. There are four, yes four, sets of cable cores which are being connected together; so to replicate the existing interconnection you need a 4-way section of "chocolate block" (terminal block) - if we're talking doing the best job, try to find the sort which has little leaves of spring metal clamping down the cable groups instead of just the bare screw.
One way is for all the earths. One is for "all" the neutrals - if you've just two cables as the moment, there's most likely just one black N to which the existing pendant cable's blue core is connected, at one of the outer of the three blocks in the ceiling rose. That's the one you connect the N wire of the new fitting to, in the second way of the choccie block. Next way is for all the permanent lives; again with just two cables there should be just two of these, one in each cable, currently connected to the middle one of the three long blocks in a line across the middle of the rose, and each coloured red - though it's possible that one's black instead, with or without a bit of red sleeving or tape on it, if the switch wiring is done "the wrong way round". None of the wires from your new fitting connects here. Final way is for the "switched live" or "switch return" - should be just one core of one of the cables, in the best case black with the bit of red tape/sleeving mentioned above, if wired "the wrong way round" it'd be red instead, but in either case currently connected to the other outer block of the rose and where the brown core of the pendant flex is also connected; this way is where you'll connect the L wire of the new fitting.
If this doesn't make sense, leave the job alone and get someone who does have a grasp of what they're doing to wire it up!
If the fitting is anything like many I've fitted, you might find it hard to get all those cables, plus the terminal block, inside the casing of the new light fitting. So there is a Third Way, and actually you might find this a bit easier to wire than Stefek's. Lift a floorboard in the room directly above the light fitting, and having labelled the wires as Stefek described, disconnect them and pull them up through the ceiling. You then replicate the existing connections using a 4-way junction box and then have just a single length of cable poking down through the hole in the ceiling (this will be the thick, fixed stuff used in the lighting circuits, not the skimpy multi-strand flex which comes with the light fitting). See
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or
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.
You now need to connect a 3-way section of terminal block to your L/N/E wires inside the light fitting, and connect the other side of the block to the L/N/E wires, respectively, of the cable now coming down through the ceiling.
Whether you use this method or Stefek's, you need to ensure that all bare earth wires throughout (ie in the junction box and/or light fitting) are sheathed in yellow/green sleeving (you should see bits of this within your ceiling rose now - B&Q etc sell it by the metre).
When you do the job, don't forget to turn off the mains electric switch, not just the light switch!
Hmm. I was all set to go with this, then looked at the wires coming out of the ceiling. There are *three* neutrals: one each for the mains and the switch wires, and one emerging between them.
No don't do that! What you'll have is *two* mains cables entering the rose; one providing power to this light, and then taking power away to feed the next light, ie continuing the circuit. Together with the switch cable and the one feeding the lightbulb, that makes 4.
I think the confusion has arisen because the link which somebody posted earlier
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the wiring for the last light on the circuit, where there's no 'next' light to take power on to. There's a different diagram on the site for your configuration - see
look, but he says there is just an extra neutral. It may be a black single that is used for another light (usually an outside or wall light when wired like this).
The lighting wiring bit seems both accurate and helpful. The stuff on fuses is mainly OK, with the notable exception of the claim that doorbells need a 5A fuse! (Possibly an 'escape' from the cart-fuse-CU section?)
Their section on wall fixings is more questionable. They have the good idea of segmenting advice according to what sort of wall you're fixing to: but make no distinction in pictures or text once a fixing type is deemed "suitable" for a given type of wall - mush more useful would be "best for heavy", "pretty good all round", "just about suitable". And no mention of just what a b*****r concrete is to actually drill into without an SDS, nor how rare it would be in a domestic wall...
They did make changes to the site after Andy Wade wrote to them and highlighted the faults. I seem to remember they had the cheek to ask him to check all their wiring diagrams for them.
Indeed a picture is worth a thousand words (I used the same saying when I first gave the link). It could change your text from
"OK. If you want to make the new connections "inside" the new fitting, your job is basically to faithfully replicate the pattern of connections inside the existing rose. So, label the wires of the existing cables carefully. There are four, yes four, sets of cable cores which are being connected together; so to replicate the existing interconnection you need a 4-way section of "chocolate block" (terminal block) - if we're talking doing the best job, try to find the sort which has little leaves of spring metal clamping down the cable groups instead of just the bare screw.
One way is for all the earths. One is for "all" the neutrals - if you've just two cables as the moment, there's most likely just one black N to which the existing pendant cable's blue core is connected, at one of the outer of the three blocks in the ceiling rose. That's the one you connect the N wire of the new fitting to, in the second way of the choccie block. Next way is for all the permanent lives; again with just two cables there should be just two of these, one in each cable, currently connected to the middle one of the three long blocks in a line across the middle of the rose, and each coloured red - though it's possible that one's black instead, with or without a bit of red sleeving or tape on it, if the switch wiring is done "the wrong way round". None of the wires from your new fitting connects here. Final way is for the "switched live" or "switch return" - should be just one core of one of the cables, in the best case black with the bit of red tape/sleeving mentioned above, if wired "the wrong way round" it'd be red instead, but in either case currently connected to the other outer block of the rose and where the brown core of the pendant flex is also connected; this way is where you'll connect the L wire of the new fitting"
into
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FAQ should have something similar, or indeed better. This lighting question is asked frequently.
There are still errors. For example the page about plug fuses refers to BS 1361 and not to BS 1362. And there's a wiring digram showing a
3-core and earth take-off from a ceiling rose (for a fan) which doesn't mention the need for red and black sleeving on the blue and yellow cores. Nor is there any mention of 'new' colours.
D'oh! I'd noticed the absence of sleeving on the 3+E cores, then forgot to mention it when describing the wiring pics as 'accurate'. I blame encroaching old age, myself ;-) They could argue that the sleeving will often be omitted on an existing install, but that's no excuse for not advising that it should be put in when doing the rose->chockblock conversion.
Their self-proclaimed expertise is clearly in drawing nice clear pictures, which (as someone diagramatically challenged) I find commendable. You'd-a-thunk they'd have the cash (since they don't like to be thought of as a low-budget operation, and claim to 'consult' with our good friends at Savoy Place) to pay a full day rate for a "true expert" instead of hoping to Wiki their way to accuracy!
Oh dear. Not looking simple, I'm afraid: I assumed you had an existing fully-working all-wires-accounted-for ceiling rose, in one of the sort-of standard configurations. Now it turns out you have a partially-disconnected-by-some-bloke-or-other mess of wires :-(
When you say "one black sheathed wire", do you mean it's a single solid copper wire with just one covering of black insulation; or that it's got two layers of insulation - an inner black one, with a grey PVC outer layer? If the former, ***with the circuit if not all the electricity in the house isolated***, dig around more carefully, as it's quite likely the black core of a third T&E you haven't found all of. If the latter, look into that conservatory fitting you mention and its associated switch - can you see a wire there which is "obviously" the other end of the same wire?
The point is, you really *can't* wire in this new light to this existing once-had-a-light position without working out what this black wire's for. If you had a meter and know how to use it, you'd be unlikely to be asking here. If you feel you're able to work safely, and bone up on the principles of what to measure (or know them already), get a meter, and work out (a) whether the L is a permanent live, or affected by some switch somewhere, (b) if it is a permlive, which one is feed in and which one is pass-it-on-downstream (this more for curiousity than anything else ;-), and then (c) tackle the Mystery Black Wire. Is it live when some switch (is there one which used to control the missing fitting?) is switched on? Or is it a neutral to some other now-removed fitting?
If all this is sounding too haed-hurting, time to swallow pride and line a local sparky's pockets with a few notes...
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