How to manage a private road - liability etc.?

[tinnews]

I have been asked if I would be willing to take over the management (such as it is) of our little private road. We have been here ten years now and, as I am now only working part-time, it seems only reasonable that I should offer some help.

All that is involved is collection of (I think) £10/year from each of the twenty or so residents and the occasional bit of maintenance like putting up the sign with the name of the road on it and mending the odd hole.

Some years ago (before our time) a Ltd. company was formed to handle this with the aim of avoiding any personal liability if a claim was raised against 'us'. At the time this was probably a reasonable thing to do but I suspect that with new laws about directors' personal responsibility it no longer offers much protection.

What is the easiest/best/normal way to handle this sort of thing? What do others do (it must be a fairly common situation)? Is there actually any real chance of liability arising from the things that are done by 'the company/the residents' in relation to the road? As I said as far as I know all that is involved is putting up a sign or two and maintaing the road (it's concrete) which in the short term is trivial but I suppose in the long term there is a good chance it will need to be remade.

Is there a way to make each house 'own' its own bit of road and thus get cover for any liability under household insurance?

[dom]

I had a shared access road to my rural property, road owned by the local drainage company, who along with myself were responsible for upkeep (as recorded in the deeds of my property), and with 3-way access rights along with a local farmer.

First stop is read (and understand) the current legal position, who owns what and what legal obligations do they have?

The chances of a legal change so each household owns their bit would probably be expensive - especially when you consider each frontage may differ in size, everyone need access rights over everyone else's bit, some people will leave vehicles on a bit that isn't theirs, and the possibility of future demolitions or new build etc.

As uncertain as it might be, letting sleeping dogs lie may be best - and then raise a crisis fund when there's a crisis. Sure - raise your =A310/year off each resident - but do it on a goodwill basis, with no legal comebacks on yourself.

Which is more or less what we did - we took it upon ourselves to do individual ad hoc maintenance, and dug deep in our pockets when we did have to resurface.

[Paul Nutteing (valid email add]

Any road gullies and drains ?

ps What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles and what Special Branch don't want you to know.

nutteingd in a search engine.

[tony sayer]

In article , [e-mail] scribeth thus

We've got one of those serving Six properties. The first purchaser took responsibility for the road 'tho we've paid for a lorry load of gravel to replace that what's sunk over the last 8 years and when we need it we'll chuck a bit more around;)

No formal agreement exists except some sensible people living next to each other:))

[Huge]

Frankly, I'd consult a solicitor. Perhaps you can find one who'll do it for free on the basis that they'll get any subsequent work. This sounds like a right can of worms.

(That opinion being based on living down a private drive which leads off a bridleway.)

[Michael Chare]

We have a local Association which looks after our road. We all make a voluntary annual contribuition which increases the further down the road that you live. The road belongs to a 3rd party who has little interest in its upkeep. I don't recall the legal liability aspects e.g. installing road humps which catch on peoples cars, every being discussed.

You might find that you have some cover over your own house building insurance, alternatively you might be able to arrange some cheap specialist insurance as it is a common situation.

[tinnews]

I doubt very much if there's much written down as the road was created in the 1920s by a horticultural co-operative which no longer exists. I suspect the Ltd company was simply created on a "this would be a good way to do it" basis with no legal connection with the road.

I will take a look to see what there is though.

I'm not concerned about long term costs, more about 3rd party liability, if any.

[tinnews]

I suspect that might well be the best arrangement, having the Ltd company (as we have) is almost admitting that there might be something one could be liable for.

[tinnews]

No, there are various services under (and near) the road, electricity and sewers but nothing that 'belongs' to the road.

[The Natural Philosopher]

well, there is, in these nanny state days.

You could be sued if someone breaks their neck in a pothole, for example.

Best solution is a not-for-profit limited company, that has equal shares one for every resident, levies an equal charge and banks the lot, and appoints (paid or unpaid) directors or whatever to do specific things, and has a formal AGM every year, to discucss what needs doing.

The constitution should make it clear that on leaving the road, the shareholding lapses and is re-assigned to the next resident.

This is tidy and neat, and gives great protection and flexibility: You need a corporate lawyer to draw it up.

[EricP]

I think they would love this one in "uk.legal.moderated".

[Owain]

It is a good solution - with one proviso: that the ltd co is actually liable for the road. Even if the Ltd co owns the road, the *Occupiers* Liability Act may still make the householders liable.

What is important is that *somebody* (and preferably everybody) has public liability insurance for this road. Otherwise it could even arise that one householder sues another.

Owain

[R. Mark Clayton]

They usually do if it is private - check your deeds.

We had a professional claimant "injure" his leg in a gully that had its top mysteriously disappear, but fortunately the claim lapsed after TAG went bust (and we suss'ed him out).

[Retired]

I can't see how you can get insurance to cover routine maintenance, although in these litigatious days some public liability cover might be appropriate in case someone trips on a pot-hole and sues. My daughter's last house was on a small development where the owners jointly held the freehold of the land on a one vote per home basis, and they had an annual meeting, decided what needed doing each year (grass cutting, car park maintenance etc) agreed an annual charge, following which the secretary made the necessary arrangements. It worked very well, except for collecting the money when there were always one or two who were reluctant to pay. But the arrangement was enforceable by law because it had all been set down in the deeds of the properties. Your problem will come if major work is needed and there is no way of making everyone pay their fair share! B.

[dom]

That may be your best protection against litigation.

Then an opportunist litigator has to choose one resident to litigate against, if there is no apparent responsible entity. That resident then just says (via his or her lawyer), "Nothing to do with me guv".

It's probably also the lowest cost option, no legal costs, and you approach local contractors directly when major works are required.

[tinnews]

In our case if the Ltd. company didn't exist I don't think *anyone* would actually own the road and I'm wondering if that wouldn't be a better situation from the liability point of view. As it is as far as I can understand the situation the Ltd. company exists just to collect money and do minor maintenance, I'm not convinced it owns the road.

The road was created as part of a co-operative created by the government in the 1920s, the co-operative ceased to be in the late

1970s and my guess would be that the road then lapsed into not being owned. Most of the rest of the ex co-operative houses are on public roads.

What is the liability situation on common land, anyone know?

[tinnews]

I'll check when I see the documentation/paperwork on Monday but I agree, the less 'ownership' anyone has of the road the better.

[tinnews]

I wasn't meaning liability for maintenance etc. I meant public liability if, as you say, anyone sues. The thing that concerns me about public liability cover is that having it is an admission that there might be a liability and I'd much prefer a situation where as no one really owns the road the can be no liability.

We have a flat in N. London where the block is run exactly like that, it works pretty well generally.

[Mark Evans]

Since the concept of a "Limited Company", "Limited Liability Corporation", etc. Was originally intended to investors/shareholders from financial liability it can be argued that any protection of directors from consequences related to operating the company was an "unintended side effect". One which now, at least in the UK, has been somewhat corrected...