How to get a NICEIC Part P after extention build

[Chris3791]

Help!

I've hired a contractor to do the following:

1. Rear extention that includes a Kitchen. (I did the kitchen install)
2. Old kitchen converted to a G/F bathroom
3. Old 1st/F bathroom converted into single bedroom

The work was small enough to be exempt from planning permission but I gave London Newham Building Control a Building Notice so that I could get a Certificate of Completion (I indended to sell the house).

The only requirement left for the Certificate of Completion is a electrical Part P certificate/s from NICEIC. Due to a long running dispute the contractor is refusing to "complete" the work and therefore issue the Part P certificates.

I've contacted an electrician but he is not prepared to issue the Part P because he did not do the work. As I understand it, if anything goes wrong (i.e. death by electric shock) the electrician could lose his NICEIC licence. He did do a Periodic Electrical Inspection on the whole house and passed it.

I've contacted another electrician who issued 5 counts of Minor Works Certificates. My hopes were dashed when the duty officer in Building Control pointed out that the certificates did not show the electrician being certified by NICEIC. I could only conclude that I was scammed.

Worst case scenario that I am aware of, is for the cables to be dug up so that an Electrical inspection could be done. But the kitchen and the bathroom is already installed so I dread the posibility.

All the work done was inspected by Building Control and Completion Certificate will be issued once an NICEIC Part P certificate/s are presented. I already have a buyer for the house but the certificates are delaying me.

How else can I get the NICEIC Part P certificate/s? Do you know of a NICEIC electrician in and around East London who is willing to issue Part P certs for a premium? Can I get around the Part P to get the Completion Certificate from Building Control? Any other suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks.

[ARWadsworth]

What needs completing on the electrical side? If the work has been done and the circuit is energised then the NICEIC will expect a certificate to be issued even if the customer does not pay.

Contact the NICEIC ASAP

Adam

[Grumpy owd man]

AND if the person who issued the minor works certs said he was NICEIC Approved and was not, then contat the NIC they do not like falsification. Also I find it strange that you got Minor Works certs from somebody who did not carry out the work...or am I reading it wrong?

[Owain]

You don't need a Part P certificate from the electrician - under a Building Notice it's the *Council's* responsibility to certify the electric wiring.

An electrician does not have to be certified by NICEIC (or any of the other Part P guilds) to carry out Minor Works, if the minor works are not covered by the requirement for notification under Part P.

If the work is carried out under a building notice it is IRRELEVANT whether the person carrying out the work is registsred with NICEIC or any other guild or you could even have done it all yourself. It is Building Control's responsibility to certify electrical work under a building notice.

Put in a formal complaint of maladministration to the Council Chief Executive immediately and google this group for the ODPM's statement that councils are not allowed to charge extra for electrical inspections under Part P, above and beyond the standard building control notice.

Owain

[Roger Mills]

If the electrical work was included on your Building Notice, it's up to the BCO to inspect (or arrange for it to be inspected by a third party at the Council's expense). Most councils will try to wriggle out of this responsibility - but quote chapter and verse [1] to them, and insist.

[1] Hopefully someone will remind us of the relevant URLs. Otherwise Google is your friend - it's there somewhere, in earlier threads about Part P

[dg]

Yes, it is true that anyone can do the work, and the council must issue the Part P certificate at no extra cost.

But, and its a big but, if you are going down this route, you must tell the council at the start, and their contractor MUST come an check the installation as it goes in and before it is covered up.

You can't expect them to come along at the end and do a test - how do they know where all the wiring is and if it is installed to current IEE regs?

dg

[John Rumm]

1.26

[Stuart Noble]

One wonders what the "long running dispute" with the original contractor is all about, and whether it can be resolved with cash . With a buyer in place, it might be the quickest solution.

[Andy Wade]

Yes, everybody's said that, but what happens if the electrician *is* a member of a Part P self-cert scheme, doing work on a job where the building notice has been submitted to cover other aspects of the building work?

Presumably in this case the council (or other approved inspector) won't get involved in inspection & testing of the electrical work. That will follow the usual self-cert route, with the electrician notifying his or her scheme and the scheme notifying building control. (Is that right?)

Whatever happens the "person ordering the work" should get a signed EIC[1] or MWC[2] as required by BS 7671 and this is a quite separate item to the building regs completion certificate.

[1] Electrical installation certificate - covers all work where one or more new final circuits are provided or a distribution board is replaced. Must be accompanied with inspection and test schedules. [2] Electrical installation (minor works) certificate, usually just known as a minor works certificate - covers alterations where no new final circuits are provided.

[stevelup]

I notified that I was installing a new Kitchen / Bathroom / Shower Room + partial rewire and installation of a new consumer unit.

I have had no further contact whatsoever from the BCO - they haven't been to inspect any of the work and a good bit of it is now tiled / plastered over.

Is this normal?

Steve

[stevelup]

Sorry for the bad quoting there...

[Roger Mills]

No. You should have received an acknowledgement of your Building Notice, along with a list of all the stages where inspections are needed. It's then up to *you* to notify the BCO as each stage is reached - he's not required to be clairvoyant!

[stevelup]

Hi

In response to my Building Notice, I was sent an information pack about Part P and two postcards - one to send to them 7 days before works were due to commence, and one to send no later than 3 days after the works were completed.

There was no documentation describing the inspection stages.

I think I will contact them and clarify the situation.

Steve

[mike]

Good god - what a dog's breakfast this whole area is. It seems an electrician has now to be a lawyer too! Sorry - not constructive I know, but just read all this in total amazement. Does it really makes our electrical installations safer/better?

[Roger Mills]

You don't really need an answer to that, do you?!

If you haven't already signed my petition relating to Part P, see

[Stuart Noble]

Might as well allow builders to self certify as well. Guild of Master Craftsmen ennit?

[John Rumm]

No, it makes jobs for bureaucrats, costs the UK some half a billion pounds[1], leads to lower quality of work in general, and ultimately will kill people.

[1] based on the governments regulatory impact assessment - which like most is probably way under costed.

[Ed Sirett]

This is the nub of the problem. It's too late to go down the diy and building control route now.

The best way is to get the contractor to comply by whatever means you need.

[Andrew Gabriel]

From what he's said, it sounds like he did actually go down the DIY route from the start, so an NICEIC electrician wasn't required in the first place.

[Roger Mills]

Unless he told the BCO that he was using a self-certifying electrician in which case the BCO will have said "That's ok then, we'll just need to see the electrical certificate before issuing the Completion Certificate".