How accurate is your petrol station?

[Mike Harrison]

Our local has stickers from the local council saying that they are checked regularly, but maybe this is cheaper than actually checking..!

[Guy King]

The message from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Oh, that's easy. I grab 'em and point them my way.

[Frank Lee Speke-King]

There is the story of a Lancaster coming back from raiding a distant target, that suffered three diversions to alternate airfields due to fog. Needless to say, at the final diversion airfield the circuit was full of Lancasters, all low on fuel. This one finally landed, and the next morning the ground crew dipped the tanks to find seven gallons remaining from the 2154 it had set off with....not enough for another circuit.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mm. The only flying bristol blenheim crashed when it ran out of fuel on final approach..a few years back. silly bugger had left it in full rich mix (takeoff or something) all the way..

[Bob Eager]

Then there was the airliner where they confused litres and gallons when refuelling...they ran out of fuel pretty much 'as they landed' at a remote 'airfield'.

[Alan]

In message , nightjar wrote

So the solution adopted by the trade is to rip off everyone unless they complain.

There is a very simple solution - over size glasses with a pint line. Everyone then can get a pint of liquid.

[Andy Hall]

Not washers in the optics again?

BTW. Who is the PF? Is he a hard bastard? No nonsense.. that kind of thing.?

[Owain]

regularly, but maybe this

Regularly is not frequently.

Are the stickers dated?

Owain

[Owain]

:-) Never thought of that!

Sorry, I meant hand measures as these were felt to be less reliable.

Oh aye, well hard. He'll have those publicans bent over the desk shirt tails up and trousers down for a sound thrashing.

I have my suspicions that "preparing a report for the Fiscal" is broadly equivalent to writing "No Further Action" on something and filing it in a round metal container at floor level.

Owain

[Rumble]

Vortex said the following on 30/10/2006 18:22:

the actual legislation. The above reference refers to the guidance notes. It confirms the +/- 0.5% figure for petrol delivered in quantities in excess of 2 litres.

[Dave]

I would hope that a proper lab would calibrate much more frequently.

I used to work in the aerospace industry and tools that crimped cables, anything that measured etc. were always calibrated every 3 months.

A few months ago, I was sat at the bar of my local real ale pub, when trading standards came in to measure the optics and shot measures. I watched him doing his checks and when he had finished I queried his equipment that he used to check the pubs measures.

Q1 Where is your certificate of calibration for the kit in that case you are using?

A1 I don't know, it will be in the office some where.

Q2 Are your measures marked, so that you can tell that this measure has been calibrated. i.e. Does it have a serial number on it? Does it, in fact, belong in this kit?

A2 It does have this number on it. (after investigation, it turned out to be a type number, rather than a serial one). We don't have any records of what measure belongs where.

Q3 So how do you know that the measure you are using belongs in the set that you are using for testing?

A3 Well, obviously, I don't.

Q4 So, your calibration set is composed of items that are not traceable and may never have been calibrated after they were manufactured.

A4 Yes.

Q5 Does the kit, as a whole, have a serial number?

A5 No.

So next time you see trading standards at work, ask them some questions.

Dave

[Fitz]

I used to work at Tesco, admittedly over ten years ago, but one of my jobs was to test the pumps.

As someone mentioned you pumped x litres into a calibrated stainless container, then poured it back into the tank.

Used to do it every week and if the results weren't documented in the right place a bollocking from management was issued. It made your head sing with all the fumes - especially if you did all pumps in one session.

Not sure what happened if they read out because they were never out by anything that could be reliably measured using the sightglass in the container.

-- Steve F

[Fitz]

Surely if you buy those mucky thick beers where they have a dollop of milkshake on top it's part of the character or something... ;-)

I like those dutch and belgian bars where they sell a bazillion beers in bottles and on tap and every _single_ one come in it's own branded and differently shaped glass. Where do they keep them all!?!

[Dave Liquorice]

If you are thinking of the "Gimli Glider" it was a 767-200 and it ran out of fuel at 41,000'.

[Bob Eager]

containing the account of this, but haven't reached that one yet. Still on the one about the small plane lost in the Pacific, trying to find New Zealand with failed navigation aids. Also contains the other glider, the

747 with the volcano ash stopping all four engines!

[Alan]

In message , Fitz wrote

Which petrol station would you use if one manager was advertising that the honest price was £1/ltr and the other manager was selling at a 'trade' price of 95p/ltr.

Would you change you mind if you were told that the owner of one of the petrol stations has an agreement with the Government that the'trade' measure could be at least 5 percent short and because the his supplier puts in extra foaming agents it is often 10, 20 or 30 percent short measure?

With the level of short measures in a lot of pubs the price in your average pub is over £3/ pint for beer.

[Woby Tide]

probably bad science but does fuel not expand and contract with differing weather conditions, i.e. in colder weather it takes less 'volume' therefore allowing the tank to accept more than normal. Likewise in the middle of summer filling it to the brim may allow a smaller volume.

All guesswork as I've no recollection off the physics of it all

[Guy King]

The message from "Woby Tide" contains these words:

Roughly 0.1%/°C

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It does, and that's one reason why it's stored deep underground at a uniform temp no matter what the weather.

[Alan]

In message , Fitz wrote

I'm sure that if more people realised the level of short measure then more would care. People don't expect short measures in other products sold by the pint or litre.

Wrong stereotype. Camra members come with a variety of foot ware and hair styles. There are other stereotypes more fitting - ask any publican with first hand knowledge of a camra branch. :)

I agree, but at least occasionally you ask for a top-up. I occasionally ask as well - but not all the time. Most people seem to be afraid to ask even when they know that the measure isn't correct.

I bet you have :)

As most pint glasses are wider at the top a head of around 30mm equates to 30 percent of the capacity of the (brim measure) glass.

Go into most pubs and watch a pint of beer being dispensed via nitrogen. Most heads are a minimum of 20mm.

Even the case of a hand pulled beer the publican will often use a mechanical means of serving the beer with a large head.

The recommended 'trade' short measure has a very small head - about half the width of the nail on your little finger