HETAS - is it worth anything?

[Vir Campestris]

Another in our long saga of getting things done to our house with the wrong tradesmen :(

We got a HETAS registered fitter in to install a wood burning stove. We weren't entirely happy at the time, but he managed to convince us that he'd done it OK.

Then just as winter starts we're called by someone else local. They'd also had a stove fitted, and the installation was so unsafe that it's been condemned as unsafe. And the fitter has emigrated to Spain.

So we contacted HETAS, as his professional body. They say there's nothing they can do, as he's no longer a member - he voluntarily deregistered - and the only sanction they have is compulsory deregistration.

I've posted this in legal.moderated for comments too. Legal aside, any suggestions on what we do next?

Andy

[JimK]

What were/are the issues with the job?

Anything else like suing is probly good money after bad...

Jim K

[Tim Watts]

I'd say HETAS is worth as much as NICEIC, NAPIT, GasSafe etc etc.

On the whole you can expect the member to be trained and competent, but there will still be more corner cutting merchants than zero.

I had a stove fitted by a HETAS guy and he seemed OK - and no problems - but I'd already read the building regs as I thought I might do it myself, so I roughly knew what he should be doing.

He asked me to add another vent to the room as it *may* contain a gas burning appliance too (cooker) and I did so before he fitted the stove.

I'd prepared the fireplace opening and satisfied the "no combustible thinsg within a certain distance" reg so all he had to do was sort out the flue liner.

[Adrian]

Remember not to use the stove.

[JimK]

/Remember not to use the stove. /q

Whilst avoiding panic & knee jerk reactions?

Jim K

[Brian Gaff]

Not very helpful. I seem to remember this being on a radio show about a year back. It appears that these stoves have to be EU certified and in some parts of the coountry are actually not allowed, though whether there are wood burner police running around is probably very unlikely. I'd imagine the main issues are the safety of being able to touch very hot parts, or poor materiels or work on the chimney/flues, otherwise its normally not a problem, at least for those I've encounterd. Not what I would fit myself, but probably ideal if you have a cheap source of burnable wood! Brian

[Adrian]

That goes without saying.

[meow2222]

8><

get it inspected?

NT

[nemo]

Install a CO alarm.

[Dave Liquorice]

Fitted by the same fitter?

Bad luck ...

I'd say they have a "duty of care". You have reason to believe that your installation is dangerously unsafe, it was installed by a fitter who was registered with them *at that time*. IMHO they should send around one of their inspectors(*), at their cost, to check that the installation is correct and safe.

If all is well no problem and you have piece of mind. If it isn't you are going to have to get it fixed, this will cost and it ought to be the original fitter that pays. But he's done a runner, the legal costs of trying to get anything from him from spain would be prohibitive.

I'd have a very close look at the HETAS membership T&C's, remembering that the fitter was(?) a member at the time he fitted your stove. HETAS may well be bluffing about not being liable for any corrective works/compenstation.

(*) ie the people they have to verify that the work done by new members is up to scratch.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Membership terms will almost certainly include liability insurance, and HETAS should be able to tell you who his liability insurance is through.

I suspect you will have to get it checked at your own expense initially, but if his workmanship is faulty, you might be able to claim the repair and inspection fee from his insurers.

Check in the moderated legal group.

[Robin]

I don't see how HETAS ends up owing a duty of care when they had no involvement in the contract but it's a very long time since I might just possibly have understood, up to a point, the Caparo test ;)

AIUI HETAS only require members to show evidence of public liability insurance, not professional indemnity. Sadly, the warnings about checking that a gas fitter, sparks etc is registered don't seem to go on to warn that it might be an idea for consumers to ask to see what insurance cover they have (although some of the electrical competent person schemes do seem to offer a bit more protection).

FWIW that's my understanding. Though if there's no evidence of insurance the cost of a formal inspection and report muight be better spent on remedial work?

[meow2222]

Yes - but you'd need an inspection to see if anything's amiss, and if so what, assuming the OP isnt a gas expert.

NT

[Andrew Gabriel]

Well, you can ask for an informal inspection with on-the-spot verbal feedback, and only go on to ask for a formal report if that turns up any problem.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Brian Gaff writes

I think this relates to the smoke emitted. Prolly not allowed in the old

*smokeless* zones.

[David]

As I asked in uk.legal.moderated - how long have you had this stove?

Have you used it?

If so, did you have any problems?

One bad installation does not mean that all installations are bad, or that if an installation is non-compliant that it will be expensive to fix.

You need to know if the installation is bad before going any further, instead of just sounding off about HETAS.

Cheers

Dave R

[JimK]

/I think this relates to the smoke emitted. Prolly not allowed in the old

*smokeless* zones/q

Unless the stove is approved for use in those zones...

Jim K

[Dave Liquorice]

Except he is no longer a member so won't have the insurance... Unless there is an insurance backed guarantee of some sort.

[Vir Campestris]

They're ducking hard. They claim they have no exposure - it was only if he damaged the house while the work was in progress. Which TBH seems unlikely.

Done.

Andy

[Vir Campestris]

Agreed.

But so far it seems anyone with any potential liability (HETAS and his insurance company) are denying any responsibility.

BTW the risk is perhaps larger than most owing to the thatched roof. Unlike most of the other people we've used the thatchers seemed to know their stuff.

Andy