Helping Mum refit her bathroom ..

[T i m]

Hi All,

Today I took my (70 ish year old) Mum round the sheds because she would like a new bathroom. Dad isn't into DIY (now) and she tends to drive anything that get's done these days (she also tripped over a speed bump in the carpark, hitting the deck and cutting the finger that was nearly bitten off by a dog a while back) ;-(

They were talking of removing the huge cast iron bath (any value .. horse trough, planter etc or is it sledge hammer time?) and replacing it with a shorter one (just to retain a 'bath') and fitting a decent sized shower cubicle that would take a stool (for Dad) etc.

None of the sheds had a 'short' bath on display but did have corner (and semi corner) ones but they would upset the useable layout of the smallish bathroom.

I think I've found some 'studio' baths out there in internet land but wondered if anyone had any experience of them in the flesh so to speak?

Just for a bit more background .. they have a fairly old central heating system (wall mounted balanced flue with pumped indirect system to rads / cylinder (was all convection / coal fired)) and now what seems to be fashionable flat panel cast iron rads ;-)

So, questions if I may ..

Where could we see a range of good (but not 'deluxe' / expensive) shorter baths?

Who does a nice range of 'roomy' shower cubicles (spec as above). What are the pro's / cons re over / under floor plumbing on the shower waste please?

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Any general tips / advice welcome please ;-)

All the best for 2005 ..

T i m

[Bob Mannix]

Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have the catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice. Assuming there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds will be more expensive though.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped) shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at the time.

Cast iron bath: If in good nick and out on a truck it might be worth something, but you've got to get it out which will generally involve a desperate slide into madness or (more likely) the use of a sledge hammer and a large amount of aggro.

[Dave Jones]

Would be better of fitting a normal shower (thermostatic preferably) with a shower pump fitted, so when you get a combi, just disconnect the pump will save having to fit another shower unit.

[Christian McArdle]

Although you can't pump a combi based shower, it doesn't matter as it already has plenty of oomph. Choose a thermostatic mixer shower and an external pump. When/if the combi arrives on the scene, the pump becomes eBay fodder, but the flush mounted taseful chrome mixer can remain, along with the tiling.

Christian.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I looked in bathroom shops, decided what I wanted, and ordered the bits from a small plumbers merchant, which came in the next day, and that was cheapest option too. I did get a shower screen and bath in the bathroom shop as they were on sale, and exactly what I wanted.

You must check flow rate at your main before going down the combi path, and also bear in mind Thames Water is going round reducing water pressure in areas of London at the moment, so even if it was good enough, it might cease being so in the future.

[T i m]

Thanks for that Bob .. that was sorta our next port of call. After her tumble I thought it was enough running about for today ;-(

Ok .. understood. Do folk still install 'traditional' 'tanks in the loft and cyl in the airing cupboard' type setups? ie, if we were to stay with the main system (it's all 1-1/4", 3/4" , 1/2" .. it has all been there a while but (currently) has no problems) could we simply fit a 'modern' high-efficiency boiler?

Hmm .. it does look pretty big .. and heavy .. ;-( It's one of those things .. four of you struggle for half a day and get it out in one piece, only to have it sit there for a few months before you give it to the 'scrappy'? Or, smash it up only to have someone say "Have you still got that bath .. I'll give you £100 for it!"

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

Ok . slightly confused here. By a 'normal shower' you mean a shower that *could* run off a gravity fed system? This would be ~150 quids worth of Mira or similar?

Then I could fit a pump to that if I (they) wanted a bit more 'ooomph' but would still run from a sealed / combi type heater thing without the pump if they went that way?

If we went for a 'Power Shower' we would *have* to have it pumped or it (probably) wouldn't deliver?

Am I close?

All the best ..

T i m

>

[T i m]

So, a bit like 'window shopping' in PC World then getting it off the net elsewhere! ;-)

I did get a shower screen and

That's a big part of it isn't it .. getting what you want. While going about with Mum today we would see something then be turned round by the price, (inappropriate) size, fittings (location) quality (too flash / too nasty) etc.

Didn't know that .. but might that also have a big impact on some of the existing installations .. spoil folks day etc? I suppose they will come up with a solution .. (like LRP for leaded) .. a pump on the input .. or (now here's a good idea) .. a sorta storage tank in the loft! (nah, wouldn't work) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

Hi Christian,

'eBay fodder' .. LOL ..

Funny though .. we'd probably get what we paid for it, on eBay!

On that then .. would I be right in thinking that a 'good brand' pump would be more re-sellable than a 'shed brand'? If that is the case, what name should we be looking for please?

All the best ..

T i m

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, householder has to buy a pump, and they're very expensive. Councils have had to fork out millions on them already for council tower blocks in the areas already affected.

It's all to do with targets. Government have given water companies a leakage target to meet. Water companies have discovered they can meet it just by reducing the pressure in the mains, without fixing the leaks. The target should have included the mains pressure somewhere in the denominator, but government isn't clever enough to think up that.

[John Stumbles]

£150 will only get you a non-thermostatic Mira whereas you could get a thermostatic bar mixer valve from Screwfix. They're surface mounted so if it packs up after a few years you can just screw a new one in, instead of being stuck with £100 for a replacement element for a Mira.

Yup. Unless you have a good head (a floor or more) between tank in the attic and shower head I'd go for a pump (until they get a combi). You can always resell it on eBay (or buy one there in the first place).

A separate valve and pump will give you a 'Power Shower', though the term is also used for all-in-one boxes containing a pump + mixer valve (thermostatic or otherwise). These look superficially like electrically-heated showers i.e. a box about 300 * 200 with knobs/switches on and a hose coming out the bottom.

[John Stumbles]

Yup, or even both (and even the boiler) in the loft.

Yes

[T i m]

Ok, no not quite as pretty (if surface mount) but more servicable and if we loose the Mira badge, better VFM ;-)

Ah, yes, may have seen a bay of those in B&Q today .. .. so it would go ..straight mixer, thermostatic, external pumped thermo, 'power shower' (and electric)?

All the best .. and thanks John ..

T i m

[Christian McArdle]

Stuart Turner.

Christian.

[Bob Mannix]

Er, I believe that's what I said (aside from the thermostatic)!

[Bob Mannix]

Not "electric" if I see what you mean. As John says "power shower" means a pumped shower. The pump is either in a shower unit on the wall or (better) separate. An electric instantaneous shower is something else, which runs of the cold mains and heats the water in the unit on the wall, which means the flow is very low by comparison. This and the wall mounted power shower look similar but aren't the same. If you had another shower room, of course, an instantaneous electric shower would be a sensible option there (if little used) as it provides backup for when the other hot water system is broken.

Were you keeping the pump, thermostatic control would be an unnecessary expense and complication. The bulk of the required thermostatic adjustment in gravity fed showers covers effects from others opening hot taps etc. The pump removes this problem, leaving changes in water temperature the only thing you might want controlled. This is rarely a problem during the course of one shower. If you are going to dump the pump later and run off a combi, then you would need the thermostatic control. The flow from the combi would be plenty for a shower but a pumped shower is likely to provide more flow.

I have a single lever Trevi shower driven by a pump which has been excellent for many years (and is on its second pump).