Help on BAXI Barcelona - ignition lock out.

About 4 weeks ago I posted a comment about unreliability of Baxi Barcelona (3 logic boards in 5 years) ... standard condensing boiler

After 2 weeks of running OK with latest board ... now have an intermittent problem ... at least every couple of days it fails.

Boiler stops working .... removing the front lower cover, shows the 'overheat/lockout' red LED is illuminated.

Turning the boiler 'off' with the thermostat on/off switch .... and then back on again, puts boiler through a reset and all works again for a few days.

All works OK ... plenty of output, and DHW and heating worked fine for several days, then it happened again.

In fault condition ... Main LED is ON, and not flashing. Lock out LED is on and not flashing From manual this states 'Ignition Lockout' has occurred.

It suggests: condensate trap is blocked Fan is not running No spark gas below pressure Faulty logic board.

Swapped out logic board again ... no difference.

As all works again when I reset ... anybody any ideas ? .... any of those could give a momentary glitch I guess, but how would I track down, other than expensive elimination swap outs.

Reply to
Rick Hughes
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Check the combustion chamber door seals and other seals that allow heat to escape. Michael

Reply to
Michael Shergold

IME the best way to trace these sort of very intermittent electric/ electronic faults is by using a data logger; they can be bought on ebay for around =A370. A data logger can be useful for other applications too, for instance I traced an intermittent engine cutting out fault on my daughter's Focus that a main Ford dealer had been unable to find. I have also used it for for fine-tuning central heating etc. I have reverse-engineered the PCBs to trace the circuits for the Baxi Barcelona so if you do decide to go down that route I can provide you with suggestions on what points to monitor.

I have also found that a useful monitor of the ignition sequence on the Barcelona is to place a radio (preferably switched to Long Wave) alongside the boiler. You can then hear the ignition sparks via the interference on the radio. This enables you to detect whether the boiler starts at the first spark (which it should do if all is well) or whether it needs several attempts to fire up. With a little practice you can even gauge the energy content of the sparks from the level of interference. This is only of use with hard faults of course, or while the intermittent fault is present.

Another thing you could try is leaving the front cover off the PCB housing. This will allow the PCBs to run cooler.

By the way, have you confirmed that the Control PCBs that you have changed were indeed faulty?

CRB

Reply to
crb

Another thing you could try is leaving the front cover off the PCB housing. This will allow the PCBs to run cooler.

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How about a small PC cooling fan directed at the board. A boiler can be quite a hot place and can not help a pcb. What is Maxie's take on this?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

IME the best way to trace these sort of very intermittent electric/ electronic faults is by using a data logger; they can be bought on ebay for around £70. A data logger can be useful for other applications too, for instance I traced an intermittent engine cutting out fault on my daughter's Focus that a main Ford dealer had been unable to find. I have also used it for for fine-tuning central heating etc.

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How did you fine tune a CH system with it?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

On 10 Dec, 12:35, "Doctor Drivel" wrote

I have a separate thermostat in the master bedroom to maintain a minimum night-time temperature. I used the data logger to establish the normal temperature drop off rate and the night-time warm up rate to optimise the night-time boiler burn time. Also used it to establish normal boiler cycle time (I once had a boiler problem with short-cycling), and to optimise the radiator ouputs for each of the rooms.

CRB

Reply to
crb

Buying a data logger does not seem a likely way forward for me ... it would require an in-depth understanding of how the thing is supposed to work, which I don't have.

The original control board had a hard fault ... would blow fuse as soon as switched on. Replaced control board ... and all run OK for 2 weeks .... then this intermittant 'ignition lock out/ overheat' fault started.

In case it was a faulty board - replaced board again ... but same fault, unlikely 2 boards would have same intermittant fault.

New board has 4 'jumpers' not 2 ..... have set it to J1, 3, 4 IN J2 out which is advised setting for thermal store use. (also tried it with all jumpers out - no difference regarding fault)

Today I removed and cleaned out the condensing water trap (as manual advises this is one cause of ignition lock out)

Set ignitor gap to correct gap - 3.5mm

Still same ... intermittant lock out, rest clears until next lock out.

With cold weather this is now a pain, means we often get up to no hot water or CH. !

Reply to
Osprey

Check combustion chamber seals, as these cause problems on some boilers. Check that the heat exchanger is not blocked and flow through it is good. Local overheating of the heat exchanger can cause overheat lockout. Check overheat and flow pipe thermister too. These items are not expensive.

If no luck, scrap it and put in a decent boiler.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow morning .......... Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)

Reply to
Osprey

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow morning .......... Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)

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Keep at it. You will get there. Best of luck.

BTW, poor quality ignition leads can caus problems on some boilers.

Just as well its not an Ideal, as they appear to be winding up, and they own Keston too. Control parts should not be a problem with Ideals, just the major parts like heat exchangers.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

That is a valid point, this fault only started 'after' I changed the wiring harness (with 2 week delay) ... I'll also put the old ignition lead back in as a try.

Reply to
Rick Hughes

But unlikely if the reason for the lockout was "overheat"! I'd go for the door seals or other various other gaskets/seals around the combustion chamber. Michael

Reply to
Michael Shergold

I have ordered a new thermistor & cumbustion door seals for tomorrow morning .......... Not going to scrap a boiler only 5 years old. :-)

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This boiler is know to be problems. I don't know what you have paid so far for parts, but a combi/system boiler can be bought from B&Q for £300 - a Heatline which is owned by Vaillant. The combi can be used as a system boiler. By the time you replace know problem parts, and the constant hassle, a new boiler would have been cheaper and with a guarantee too.

Heating only a thermal store doing long burns is the perfect hydraulic environment for a boiler. Full flow and no cycling, so no excessive wear on controls. A cheap condenser would be OK on such a setup. One of the advantages of a thermal store is that simple cheap boilers may be used without little adverse affects on the boiler or system.

Boilers with more complicated control systems are "generally" a waste of time and money on such systems. The exception is dual temperature boilers, like the Broag, Keston and others (avoid Keston though). With dual temperature boilers with internal weather compensation, using a boiler controlled 3-way diverter valve, they can reheat the DHW store top section ASAP under full boiler heat, when heated the valve closes and it heats the CH section under low temperature weather compensation control - duel temperature boiler output. The rads or UFH pumps this water to the heating loop(s). Using rads a Smart pump with TRVs all around can be used and no central room stat screwing up the CH air temprature control.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Is this boiler fixed?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

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