Heating effect of hot weather on cables in loft

I completed a job yesterday which I had been putting off for some time due to the unpleasantness of working in the loft during this current heat wave. The job was a partial re-wire of the lighting circuit which was a strange one to me as it involved the mains feed looped through each wall switch usi ng a red and green striped cable carrying a single red live and an earth. T he neutral was a single strand wire which did not always follow the same ro ute as the live all this buried under 270mm of insulation. So I went for a more common wiring system looping through junction boxes teeing off to the switches and light fittings as required and all this wiring was routed over the top of the insulation. What I did note after doing the first fix routi ng all the cables was just how warm these cables became after a day of the sun beating down on the roof. Myself I found I could not work for more than 20 mins. at a time, no idea what the temp. was up there but I felt I lost a few kilos of sweat. It occurred to me taking de-rating into consideration that the cables now above the insulation were subject to more heating than laid below, therefore should I have used heavier gauge than the 1.5mm sq., the house is a bungalow with the main lighting circuit feed being no more than about 20m when it is all replaced.

Richard

Reply to
Tricky Dicky
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Just checked for you in the IET 17th (red book)

Cables ratings are stated at 30C by default. For 70C thermoplastic (that includes all PVC cables), the derating multiplier is:

35C 0.94 40C 0.87 45C 0.79 50C 0.71 55C 0.61 60C 0.50

You can apply those to the max current of the 1.5mm cable in your worst case scenario.

However 1.5mm at 6A will be fine almost no matter what you do with it.

I measured my roof space in the baking heat and it got to about 40C so it's not as bad as you may have thought.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Thanks for the re-assurance Tim. It certainly felt like 40C+ up there my gauge for how long I could withstand working up there was pools of sweat sloshing about the inside of my specs or the tools slipping out of my hands! never again on a hot day.

Richard

Reply to
Tricky Dicky

The cables above the insulation are now removed from the derating factor caused by been buried under the insulation!

Reply to
ARW

I bet it was >40. Even fans do little in such heat.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

how long I could withstand working up there was pools of sweat sloshing about the inside of my specs or the tools

slipping out of my hands! never again on a hot day.

I have encountered 47C in lofts many times when working as an aerial installer.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Wright

This is the hottest my loft has got in the last 11 years:

2013 Jul 15 15:26:28 Temperature - Outside 25.0 2013 Jul 15 15:27:03 Temperature - Loft 47.5

As you can see, although it was warm outside at the time, it wasn't as hot as it gets outside.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Wow. That's hot.

I should add my loft has a large chunk out for a dormer. I was measuring in a fairly enclosed long void that runs under the lower southern side of the roof in full sun as that's where I'm sticking all my cables - in a cable tray, with the heavy current cables laid out side by side for cooling and the lower current myriad lighting cables and switch drops together in a bundle to one side.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Sorry ARW, I must be in line for your apprenticeship ;-) I cannot understand that statement. I thought that putting high rating cables under high rating (EG Cooker) cables under the insulation was a no no. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Reply to
Broadback

You said you'd moved your cables from below the insulation, to above it, therefore they no longer need de-rating for that (other factors may apply).

Reply to
Andy Burns

Indeed, the cables under the insulation need a de-rating factor (because they are under insulation) and that de-rating factor is similar to the de-rating factor of passing the cables through hot spaces. Basically it's swapping one de-rating factor for the other.

BTW Tim Watts answered this one correctly, he said "However 1.5mm at 6A will be fine almost no matter what you do with it."

For 1.5mm T&E on a 6A MCB/RCBO then it would take a special idiot to f*ck things up. You would need to make the full load of the lighting circuit to be just above 6A, run the all the lights 24/7 and wrap the cable several times around the HW pipes and cover them both fully in insulation before you started to see problems in a couple of years time.

Reply to
ARW

That made me smile :-) All too easy to mash or fracture 1mm T&E conductors anyway.

It is shower cables run thro loft insulation that can get fed up... often 6 mm with shower wattage creep and the stiff end of Uo not helping either.

Somewhere there is a CIBSE or such like reference stating a loft peak tempe rature of 48oC should be assumed. I recall making a mental note when readin g that sat on the floor of a library to never work in a loft (yes I am a wi mp, but then again I seem unbothered by extreme cold whilst others winge).

Reply to
js.b1

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