Hanging bi-fold doors (and I suppose, doors in general)

[Witchy]

Hi folks,

Happy 3rd Jan and all of that :)

Is there some sort of black art to making a doorframe to take 2 doors? Spent ages building a frame that has 90 degree corners where it should, upright verticals where it should, and a nice top plate to take the tracks for these 2 bi-fold doors. Top plate and bottom plate checked for vertical alignment (*nearly* spot on, only a couple of mm out), left and right checked with a straightedge and a spirit level etc. They had to be packed a lot because of the state of the wall, but they're vertical.

Right hand door fits and works perfectly, left hand doesn't - it wants to be nearly 2 inches further out at the top centre when it's vertically correct (with spirit level)

top plate < misalignment occurs here

+========================+ | || | | || |

Me no understand. I can even put a straightedge along the tracks at the top and they're even. If I put both doors flat on the floor (where they were painted) they're not warped.

Is there a 'secret angle' I need to discover? Fsckin' B&Q wood......

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[Set Square]

Me no understand either! Please clarify what you mean by "nearly 2 inches further out at the top centre". In which direction?

When you're working with large-ish spaces like door frames - where things may not be entirely straight - it is very difficult to check for squareness with a normal set square. I made a large wooden triangle whose sides are 3',

4' and 5' long respectively for the purpose. This evens out any slight errors due to unstraightness. Even so, 2" is a hell of a lot to be out!

I assume that your uprights are vertical in *both* planes? (i.e. when viewed from the room and when viewed from the centre of the opening)

I assume that the vertical bubble in your spirit level is correctly alligned? In other words, if you put it's shiny face against a "vertical" frame member, and it reads vertical - and then you turn it round with its non-shiny (top) face against the frame, does it still read vertical? If in doubt, check all verticals with a plumb line - that doesn't lie!

[Dave Liquorice]

Or just measure the diagonals, if they ain't the same it ain't square (or rectangular).

[Kevin Gibbs]

[Set Square]

[Witchy]

Oops - typo. It's DSCF5426.JPG. I must've got dyslexia for xmas along with the flu :)

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[Set Square]

Well I can now see the picture - but I'm not sure what it represents! Is it upside down? (I thought you had trouble at the *top*)

It appears to show one door inset into the frame, and the other not. If you have 2 doors which line up with each other - in an in and out sense - at the top but not at the bottom (or vice-versa) it's got to be down to one of two causes (or a combination thereof): Either: the two side frame uprights are not in the same plane as each other (so they can't *both* be vertical) Or: one or more doors has got a nasty twist rather than being flat.

I think you said they were bi-fold doors. Do the 2 halves of each leaf line up with each other all the way down?

[Set Square]

Well I can now see the picture - but I'm not sure what it represents! Is it upside down? (I thought you had trouble at the *top*)

It appears to show one door inset into the frame, and the other not. If you have 2 doors which line up with each other - in an in and out sense - at the top but not at the bottom (or vice-versa) it's got to be down to one of two causes (or a combination thereof): Either: the two side frame uprights are not in the same plane as each other (so they can't *both* be vertical) Or: one or more doors has got a nasty twist rather than being flat.

I think you said they were bi-fold doors. Do the 2 halves of each leaf line up with each other all the way down?

[Set Square]

Sorry for the repeated message - the stupid system didn't want to send it - and then sent it twice!

[Witchy]

The trouble was at the top when there were no door fittings on and I had both sets of doors lined up along the bottom plate. With the top track in place the left hand door can be seen to be sitting uncomfortably in its mountings and the problem appears you can see in the pic at the bottom.

They are - I attacked them both with the plumb bob again this afternoon. The right hand one is 2/8ths out top to bottom and the left hand one is 1/8th top to bottom, so that's a 1/8th discrepancy left to right which I don't believe would cause such a drastic twist. If I take the left hand door out of its top track to line it up with the right hand one I need to push the top left inwards by as much as 2 inches!

If they have I'll publicly burn them in B&Q's car park [1] - one of the doors for the right-hand side (not bi-fold) has warped despite being painted flat like the instructions say ("the first coat must be applied while the door is flat" and I gave 'em 3 coats), the bi-fold ones have been painted flat and stored flat (folded) in the room they're hanging in.

Yep. What I'm going to do now is reverse the doors, IYSWIM, and I'll see if the fault moves to the right hand door.

Don't get me started on the quality of the fittings either :)

[1] or shout at the manager. The door bumf says they must be stored flat and B&Q store 'em upright.

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[Set Square]

As I said before, either one of the uprights (or, at any rate, the effective hinge axes) ain't vertical or else the doors are twisted.

To check for twist, use a plumb line on each door in turn (in the closed position) - first on the hinge side and then on the far side. Any difference in the verticality of the 2 edges is twist!

Also, drop a plumb line from the centre of the track down onto the bottom rail. This is where the centre of the non-hinge edge of each door should come to.

Just a final thought. Is there anything unsymmetrical about the bottom hinge pin mounts which would cause one door to move in the botton, and the other to move out? [This should show up when you check the door edges for verticality].

[Witchy]

Thanks for still looking - even after 4 years of DIY I still feel like a numpty sometimes :)

Nope, both are at identical positions either side of the plate.

Tonight I reversed the doors and the offset moved with the doors, ie as soon as I fitted the left hand door in the right side of the frame it was immediately proud of the bottom plate, much more than the 'real' right hand door is. I'll check with the bob tomorrow, as well as double checking the centre of the top mounting hole is aligned with the bottom jamb plate.

Bits of me can't help but think if I rotate the bottom plate anti-clockwise (or move the pin mounts) the doors will fit but the frame will look odd despite being 99% vertical. My Dad is a retired woodwork teacher and all he can think of is that sometimes the measurements are right but you still have to bodge things :)

Ta!

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[Witchy]

Done, and all was peachy, almost. Left jamb was 2mm off left/right and the right jamb is about 3mm off front/back, all now fixed.

Open left hand door slightly, wrap bob string round the top mounting post and......

the door's warped as fsck.

I'd do a pic but I'm so bloody angry, particularly since the painting and storage instructions were followed to the letter......

*fume*

Ta for the pointers :)

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs