H&S Assessment

[Rod]

The company I work for has just undergone a health and safety assessment. One of the items to come up was the need to change two double sockets in the small kitchen to ones that have integrated RCD devices.

The kitchen is used for making tea, warming up the odd pasty in a microwave or, when someone really pushes the boat out, toasting a slice of bread. And there are only half a dozen or so staff.

1 There are actually three double sockets in the room. Not sure why only two were mentioned. (Plus fridge and dishwasher - but they are hidden.)

2 There is a door leading out onto a small patio. So I guess you could argue that devices used outdoors could be plugged in there. But this would equally apply to the hall/entrance area.

3 The wiring isn't exactly old - maybe 12 years.

I have not checked whether the circuits are protected by RCDs, and, if so, what rating. For the purposes of getting an answer, I would assume that they are protected. (I can see the argument if the circuits were not protected - but wouldn't it actually make more sense to fit whole circuit protection?) So far as I am aware, the circuits are sound and we do not get nuisance trips.

I imagine all sockets would include a 30 mA device.

And this is in England, in case that makes any difference.

So - what is the justification for providing this extra level of protection?

I really can't see everyone testing the RCD every time they plug the kettle in. Would fitting them really make any difference to safety?

Rod

[OG]

If, in the event of a fault, the RCD in the socket is the first to trip it should avoid the 'whole circuit' tripping. If the rest of the circuit includes office computers and the like, this would make a lot of sense in terms of the risk of lost work, corrupted files etc.

Is it a 'requirement' from the H&S inspection or a 'recommendation' ?

[Andrew Gabriel]

This is a good idea for the worktop items. You often find ordinary kettles, toasters, and the like, and these can be subject to much more frequent use than they were designed for in a domestic environment, so the extra protection of an RCD here is a good choice. (Strictly, such appliances should be replaced with commercial ones which are up to the usage, or PAT tested very frequently, or replaced on a routine basis well before they normally fail.)

I would keep the fridge/freezer off that RCD though.

[Lurch]

On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:00:24 +0100, Rod mused:

Maybe ask the person that wrote the report?

What priority have they given the note? I can only see it being a recomendation.

Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were no RCD protection, many commercial installations only have RCD's on actual outdoor sockets, everything else on MCB's only.

Why would testing them everytime the ketle is plugged in make it any more or less safer?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That's a big 'if'. ;-)

[cynic]

Is this yet another example of a health and safety officer justifying his/her job by putting something on paper? How many incidents (if any) have occurred since the kitchen was put into use?

Kettle - personal risk low unless staff are in the habit of holding it whilst wating for it to boil or pouring whilst switche on Same situation with microwave but toasters seem to suffer idiots poking about inside with knife or fork so there may be justification unless you would like to see Darwinism in action! The major problem is then the ensuing paperwork.

Wait till the next inspection - it will provide another report paragraph.

So 15th edition then. Is metalwork everywhere infested with green/ yellow bonding wires? Bonding became the vogue when cable manufacturers voiced there presence on the wiring regulations committee - miles of cable to a captive market

If you do have an RCD at the consumer unit seving the kitchen circuits you must never have had a problem with faulty appliances or earth leakage.

Maybe, maybe not. More than likely not if you haven't had tripping at any time

Why should you? repeated operation would be unreasonable and introduce unneccessary wear and tear. Three or four times a year is more than adequate and in any case only tests the mechanism of the RCD not the protection given. If you simply provide an RCD at the consumer unit and it protects other sockets there may be loss of data in the event computer supplies are fed from it.

Swapping to 30mA RCD protected sockets would avoid a lot of other problems if you decide to go down the route but beware - if there is an RCD at the supply end ot the cable and it is a 30mA unit it will not discriminate and all that will happen is you will trip both simultaneously. If this is the case you could instead provide a 32A RCBO feeding a 4mm T&E raidial dedicated to serving only the two sockets involved.

[Lurch]

On 26 May 2007 06:48:38 -0700, cynic mused:

When did 16th edition start again?

[Owain]

1991 (red cover) my edition is dated. Applies to installations scheduled for completion after 31 Dec 1993. 15th Ed "Regulations for Electrical Installations" 1981 (Red cover), last reprinted with amendements 1987. 14th Ed 1966, last amendments 1976

13th Ed 1955, no amendments, last printing 1964

Can't be bothered typing the rest

Owain

[Lurch]

On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:36:03 +0100, Owain mused:

That'll do, all I wanted to point out is right there. ;)

[cynic]

Bugger! doesn't time fly?

[Rod]

Indeed, that is being done.

I did mean, I imagine that all *new* RCD protected sockets would be rated at 30 mA.

If there is no RCD protection on the main circuits, wouldn't that be a more appropriate way to enhance safety?

Simply that is what is written on the RCD sockets - "Test before use"! So, if people don't do that then they are clearly not complying with the requirements in full.

Thanks for the response.

[Rod]

Zero. In fact, in all those years, the accident book has got just two extremely minor entries.

Quite possible - we are pretty civilised and don't tend to do 'silly' things!

The only trips I have known have been on lighting circuits when bulbs fail.

Bloomin' expensive approach.

Thanks,

[Lurch]

On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:26:01 +0100, Rod mused:

Still the same response for me, not all sockets need RCD protection so always assume there isn't any.

Depends, the same ring main could cover several other rooms so local RCD protection would be better to isoalte small areas and appliances rather than half a floor.

I suppose, but I think that's more for when the RCD socket may be in the back of a garage and used maybe once a week or so to plug the lawnmower in. Weekly, or even Monthly pressing of the test button would suffice. Do you test your RCD at home as it says on the front of it, whcih is usually Monthly?